Update - coated diamonds!

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... looks like I missed it all! Only saw the 1 auction, and he clearly stated they were heated.

Be interesting to see what their response on the forum will be. It's very naughty for them to have not stated "coated" ... as plenty of people have said, it's probably safest to assume stones have been heat treated, but coated should really be stated. Norty, norty, norty
 
Those are from the new coated collection aren't they? well they are the same low price as the pink ones that were confirmed as coated!

I haven't watched in absolute ages, and when I saw "coloured diamonds" thought this would be good to watch to see what they said. I only saw that particular item - I haven't seen any of the items that have turned out to be coated, but the presenter clearly stated that these were heated, and was referring to previous item that was natural yellows. Just thought I would post it up in case it helped
 
i just saw the canary studs too, i'm no expert by any stretch but they looked awful to me - a real chemical bright yellow colour & the inclusions were enormous (you could clearly see black specks).

i didn't catch him say anything about the treatments but he did say "if the natural canary yellow diamonds earlier were too expensive, then these are for you!".

7 available when i flicked over, only 1 sold.
 
i just saw the canary studs too, i'm no expert by any stretch but they looked awful to me - a real chemical bright yellow colour & the inclusions were enormous (you could clearly see black specks).

i didn't catch him say anything about the treatments but he did say "if the natural canary yellow diamonds earlier were too expensive, then these are for you!".

7 available when i flicked over, only 1 sold.
Didn't they just! An unnatural nasty colour imho! The presenter did say they were treated, but then he would have had to since he had just spent an hour selling just a handful of natural canary diamonds. They didn't exactly fly out either. :rolleyes:
 
I was listening specifically for how he described them, i.e. coated or heated and he definitely said heated. He did, however, only say that the once! I was surpised that they had a dedicated coloured diamond hour in light of what's been going on in here.
 
I'm not surprised in the least.

Look at it this way. They're obviously happy to sell coated diamonds. They've made the decision to sell coated diamonds. They've put the information on their website (like they do for everything else). Sooooooo, why should we expect them to do anything differently to what they do normally?

WE, on this forum, know that we won't accept coated diamonds - but WE know a bit about gemstones/treatments. The majority of the public don't. GemsTV won't change just for us.
 
What have i started? i feel bad now as everyone is worried about their jewellery!

Gemcherub, please dont feel bad - it is a good job you raised this, you have made other people aware of this fact - so you did me a big favour - so please do not worry! xxx Thank you to Meeshoo and Klosblue for your info - wish gems told you these things before you buy them - i feel slightly ripped off by gems to tell the truth - back at the time i purchased the ring, if it had been mentioned that the ruby was in fact filled, i wouldnt have bought it! xxx
 
I am in the same predicament PG. I want to know now from GemsTV if my ruby is filled and if it is (and they certainly didn't disclose that fact when I bought it) they can have it back and refund me as it was sold under false pretences. :pPC:
 
Persianglitter - don't feel ripped off. For £49 you wouldn't be able to even buy a synthetic ruby set in 9k yellow gold for what you've paid. The fact is you've got a natural but treated ruby. You should just enjoy your ring for that price.

Sue - you have a loupe don't you? See if you can see any gas bubbles. They're an indication that a Ruby might have been treated. They'll look like this:
 

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Is that the same Richard W Hughes mentioned earlier in this thread Meeshoo?
If so, it seems really bizarre that he is associated with Gems TV in the sense that as an organisation they have been "caught out" a few times now for non-disclosure at point of sale. I know it's on their website, but not everybody has internet access. I'm thinking about the "Ceylon Padparascha Sapphire" debacle of a few years ago, the current coated diamond debacle, and the question mark over rubies. I don't think I have ever heard them refer to the filling of rubies at all - the first I heard of it was ages ago with TJC when stating that their Burmese rubies were not filled, which prompted me to email Steve Ashton who confirmed to me that their Madagascar rubies were filled. This was quite some time ago ... not sure if I still have the email from him, it's at work if I have still got it so I'll check on Monday.
 
Found it ... this was Steve Ashton's response to my query about glass/lead filling of rubies. I thought he specified "Madagascar" but I remembered incorrectly ... it was majestic & royl he referred to. NB he said that the Tanzanian rubies were not filled. This is from February 2008 by the way. Off topic of diamonds, I know, but as rubies have been raised as a concern hopefully this might answer a few questions:



"Thanks for your query, not all rubies have this, only those with the Majestic and Royal pre-fix. Tanzanian for example don’t.



It’s a fairly common practise and essentially repairs minute fissures that affect the overall clarity. Without doing that the clarity and colour would be inferior.



It’s safe to assume some level of treatment in all gemstones (at least 99%) whether that is heating to stabilise the colour or improve the colour (for example lightly coloured amethyst becomes citrine with heating."
 
I've just been having a look at Gems Enhancements page. If anyone wishes to take the coated diamonds situation further (ASA) then Gems clearly have not been following their own rules as stated on their website:-

Enhancement disclosure
GemsTV takes enhancement disclosure seriously and, to the best of our ability, provides our clients with complete information on any and all enhancements to which a gem has been subjected. The descriptions we provide below are based upon those of the American Gem Trade Association guidelines (the most stringent in the industry). While many enhancements are currently undetectable, GemsTV does its best to ensure that clients have full access to information for an informed buying decision.

GemsTV discloses all known enhancements at the time of sale and backs this up with a 10-day return policy.


This part particularly disturbs me. Not only does it contradict their statement above above them disclosing all enhancements at the time of sale but it reads to me along the lines of - If we think nobody will notice we won't tell!!

Since certain enhancements are undetectable or difficult to detect, the GemsTV approach is to assume that all items are enhanced unless:

There is specific gemological evidence that shows the item has not been enhanced.
The item is of a type for which enhancements are not typically used.
We do our best to describe our gems in a clear, consistent and honest fashion. Our approach is to give our customers the same information we would like if we were purchasing the piece. Our mantra is to be true both to our customers and to the precious stones with which we are privileged to work.


Their enhancements page is a bit scary as they also dye and fill their sapphires amongst others!

It states:-
Ruby and Sapphires of all type may be Heated, Laser Drilled (use of a laser and chemicals to reach and alter inclusions for example laser drilled diamonds),
altered via Heat and Flux (During heating, fluxes dissolve surface-reaching fissure walls and redeposit that dissolved gem material, healing the fissures closed. Example: Flux-healed ruby (particularly that from Möng Hsu, Burma), Heated & Diffused, Filled, Filled and Dyed.
Majestic Rubies are Filled and Dyed!!

Emeralds can be Filled, Filled & Dyed and Laser Drilled.

Now can anyone here tell me that they've ever heard a Gems TV presenter disclosing any of these treatments? I think not yet they state "GemsTV discloses all known enhancements at the time of sale and backs this up with a 10-day return policy"!! I think not.
 
GemsTV discloses all known enhancements at the time of sale and backs this up with a 10-day return policy.


Majestic Rubies are Filled and Dyed!! :YIKES:


Now can anyone here tell me that they've ever heard a Gems TV presenter disclosing any of these treatments? I think not yet they state "GemsTV discloses all known enhancements at the time of sale and backs this up with a 10-day return policy"!! I think not.
Well that confirms that my Majestic Ruby is filled and dyed. :mad: And no, they have never stated these facts at point of sale and I certainly wouldn't have bought the ring if they had. I shall now be contacting GemsTV CS because I want to return the ring in question for a full refund. :pPC:
 
The other thing Sue is that they state Care is Needed with these gems yet normally you would expect a Ruby to be fairly hard wearing! Again this is not disclosed to buyers.
It says:- Avoid heat, steaming, chemicals and ultrasonic. Fillers in cavities and/or fissures can scratch more easily than the host gem or be more vulnerable to damage from heat or some chemicals. The lead glass may be damaged by a variety of solvents.

How would anyone know this if they didn't go out of their way to check the web and for normal people and not gem nuts like us, how would they even know that a gem could be treated in the first place and so why would they even think about looking on the website if you get what I mean!
 
Well if you're watching and buying from a tv auction you don't have time to read the bliddy web pages as well. Besides which, who knows if all the current info on treatments has always been on the web?? :WHO KNOWS: Also, many people who watch the channel may not even have access to the internet anyway so that cannot be used as a valid excuse by GemsTV anyway. ALL treatments that have been done on the specific stones should be/have been clearly stated by the presenters at the start of each auction. :pPC:
 
I suppose they would argue that they have disclosed it because it's on their website. It's a kop out, I think, but I guess that's how they would back themselves up. But not everybody has internet access, so it should be mentioned on the TV "at the point of sale"

Wouldn't we all prefer it though if the presenters disclosed treatments - maybe not heating, but certainly things such as coating, filling & dying. At least people would know categorically what they are buying, and wouldn't find themselves losing faith and mistrusting an organisation when things come to light after the fact, such as this business with the coated diamonds.
 
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Ladies a few points for you to consider:-

1. In the UK we do not have firm rules regarding disclosure.
2. GemsTV ARE disclosing by having treatments listed on a treatments page HOWEVER, I don't believe this goes far enough see my complaint to the ASA below.
3. Tanzanian Rubies are, I am almost positive, BE diffused - so although they may not be filled, they are also aggressively treated. It may be that when they first were sold by GemsTV these weren't treated in any way (and Steve Ashton confirmed to me that they had been heated but not treated) BUT I have never really felt comfortable about them. There's something wrong. BE produces blood red, excellent clarity gemstones and that's what Tanzanian Rubies are.
4. Yes that is the same Richard Hughes which is why I cannot ever believe that he has joined GemsTV.

I am sharing with you all a complaint I sent to the ASA about coated diamonds last night. I feel incredibly strongly about this subject and the ASA has acted on a similar complaint against TJC in the past so:

Coated diamonds are relatively new to the industry. They are diamonds that are coated with an unstable substance to give them the appearance of a fancy coloured diamond (i.e. blue, green, pink, red etc). It has not been proven that this coating is permanent and a great deal of care has to be taken with coated diamonds to ensure the coating does not scratch off. Thus, coated diamonds cannot be compared to any other diamonds on the market (especially coloured diamonds).

Irradiated diamonds or those coloured using the HPHT process are accepted in the industry so long as they are sold with full disclosure. The treatment is permanent and no additional care is required. GemsTV have sold many of these in the past. Coated diamonds are still, thankfully, very rare in the UK.

During October and November 2009 GemsTV started to sell coated diamonds without disclosure during their TV auctions. Therefore the buyer, especially if familiar with their products, will have (and have) bought under the premise that these are irradiated or HPHT colour treated diamonds.

At some point, GemsTV added a section on their enhancement page that discloses coated diamonds but says that it's use is "rare" thus reinforcing the message that the enhancement page is for information only and does not necessarily apply to GemsTV products.

I believe that by GemsTV not declaring that these diamonds are coated is grossly misleading. GemsTV rely on an enhancements page on their website to give information to buyers BUT this does not give information at the point of sale or identify what, if any, treatments have been applied to specific pieces. There is no clarity. The enhancement page itself says "We do our best to describe our gems in a clear, consistent and honest fashion. Our approach is to give our customers the same information we would like if we were purchasing the piece. Our mantra is to be true both to our customers and to the precious stones with which we are privileged to work." Quite clearly they are NOT describing their gemstones in a clear or honest manner.

Furthermore, they state "GemsTV takes enhancement disclosure seriously and, to the best of our ability, provides our clients with complete information on any and all enhancements to which a gem has been subjected. The descriptions we provide below are based upon those of the American Gem Trade Association guidelines (the most stringent in the industry). While many enhancements are currently undetectable, GemsTV does its best to ensure that clients have full access to information for an informed buying decision." Again I would dispute that they provide complete information or accurate information at the point of sale. The onus is firmly on the customer to speak to customer services for clarification. At that point (as evidenced below) they may or may not be given accurate information.

If a customer only has access to a telephone and TV and buys jewellery from GemsTV in that manner, they will not have the opportunity of reading the enhancements page. Even if they have, the information is less than clear.

On 18th November at approximately 8pm I spoke with Ben one of the Customer Service Team Leaders who categorically told me that the diamond earrings I was going to purchase were DEFINITELY not coated and that GemsTV did not sell coated diamonds. He explained that the enhancements page was "generic" and not specific.

On 25th November, another customer received an email from John Butler of GemsTV in response to the same query to say that the diamonds WERE coated. On 26th November another customer was emailed with the same information.

Several years ago, the ASA investigated a complaint by a buyer of Coated Pink Topaz from The Jewellery Channel as they had not declared the coating. The ASA ruled in favour of the buyer and The Jewellery Channel have since amended all their TV auctions to clearly state where coatings have been applied.

As this is a specialised area, may I ask that you make your own investigations to determine whether the industry believes this treatment be disclosed? I think you will find that without exception the information you will find will say that this treatment MUST be disclosed prior to sale. May I respectfully ask that you contact Safeguard who are the valuation arm of the Birmingham Assay Office (or approach the Birmingham Assay Office direct) for their views as they are independent?

To assist with your research into this complaint I am attaching links to several articles that you may also find helpful:
http://accreditedgemologists.org/art...r-diamonds.pdf
http://www.eglcanada.ca/media/Summar...D_DIAMONDS.pdf

To conclude, it is my belief that GemsTV are grossly misleading their customers by not declaring a gemstone treatment that has a detrimental effect to the price and longevity of these pieces of jewellery.


I have to tell you that I have never ever felt the need to report GemsTV before. I have always bought from them and even when others had moved away, I still bought from them. This however, for me, is a step too far.

You will appreciate that by sharing GemsTV will have prior knowledge of the complaint but I have taken screen dumps of the enhancement page in case they change it. At the end of the day, it is ethical, in my view, that treatments should be disclosed for each individual piece and this applies to GemsTV, Rocks and Co and RocksTV (who don't even have an enhancements page at the current time).

Oh, and if GemsTV really cared as per the note posted on here via Graham, why have they not replied? This is a no brainer. They know what they sell and if they're happy to sell that rubbish then they should be happy to say "yes, we are selling coated diamonds and it applies to product numbers between X and Y. All other coloured diamonds in our range are [insert name of treatment]". If they wanted to go a step further they could even say "and in the spirit of disclosure we will ensure that all future TV auctions will have the word "coated" inserted in the title as appropriate". Job done.
 
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I've just been having a look at Gems Enhancements page. If anyone wishes to take the coated diamonds situation further (ASA) then Gems clearly have not been following their own rules as stated on their website:-

Enhancement disclosure
GemsTV takes enhancement disclosure seriously and, to the best of our ability, provides our clients with complete information on any and all enhancements to which a gem has been subjected. The descriptions we provide below are based upon those of the American Gem Trade Association guidelines (the most stringent in the industry). While many enhancements are currently undetectable, GemsTV does its best to ensure that clients have full access to information for an informed buying decision.

GemsTV discloses all known enhancements at the time of sale and backs this up with a 10-day return policy.


This part particularly disturbs me. Not only does it contradict their statement above above them disclosing all enhancements at the time of sale but it reads to me along the lines of - If we think nobody will notice we won't tell!!

Since certain enhancements are undetectable or difficult to detect, the GemsTV approach is to assume that all items are enhanced unless:

There is specific gemological evidence that shows the item has not been enhanced.
The item is of a type for which enhancements are not typically used.
We do our best to describe our gems in a clear, consistent and honest fashion. Our approach is to give our customers the same information we would like if we were purchasing the piece. Our mantra is to be true both to our customers and to the precious stones with which we are privileged to work.


Their enhancements page is a bit scary as they also dye and fill their sapphires amongst others!

It states:-
Ruby and Sapphires of all type may be Heated, Laser Drilled (use of a laser and chemicals to reach and alter inclusions for example laser drilled diamonds),
altered via Heat and Flux (During heating, fluxes dissolve surface-reaching fissure walls and redeposit that dissolved gem material, healing the fissures closed. Example: Flux-healed ruby (particularly that from Möng Hsu, Burma), Heated & Diffused, Filled, Filled and Dyed.
Majestic Rubies are Filled and Dyed!!

Emeralds can be Filled, Filled & Dyed and Laser Drilled.

Now can anyone here tell me that they've ever heard a Gems TV presenter disclosing any of these treatments? I think not yet they state "GemsTV discloses all known enhancements at the time of sale and backs this up with a 10-day return policy"!! I think not.

Klosblue, I for one can state, I have never ever heard any presenter on gems ever state that their diamonds are treated/coated likewise for emeralds, sapphires and rubies. They dont even mention the fact that the colour topaz you get are treated to, ie. mystic, flamingo etc etc - but TJC have always stated that the named varieties of their topaz, i.e mystic topaz are coated - and i know TJC always state that their black diamonds are treated - and also they have gone so far as to state that their pearls are treated to get the colours that they do - never once heard on Gems a presenter ever stating that their gems have been treated in any way - its all down to TJC that I discovered topa were coated or treated to get those colours! xxxxx
 

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