The butcher is back lay out he red carpet.

[thatu]

I've been vegetarian for 45 years and have latterly made the transition to being vegan. Since the age of 15 I haven't had anything made of leather, and I don't have anything made of wool or silk. I often wonder if people consider the origin of pearls when they buy Honora - which I wouldn't wear. I also don't buy any cosmetics or household products that aren't endorsed by Cruelty-Free International. I would never do a job which conflicted with this. Living a cruelty-free life is the most important principle in my life, and I do everything I can do not to be part of the animal Auschwitz that is today's world. People think I'm nuts - and I couldn't care less.

Far be it from me to try to impose my morals on anyone else, just as I'm sure nobody here would impose their morals on me. All I'm trying to point out is the illogicality of taking a stand against animals and humans suffering cruelty while still alive and at the same time denying vegetables/bacteria etc their right to existence. I totally agree it's wrong to inflict cruelty on anything but at the same time I'm aware that I'm being illogical because I don't mind killing off bacteria and the odd cabbage or two. But it's nature's way. As I said, nature feeds off itself. And nature isn't too particular about how it kills its prey, either. That's not to condone cruelty, far from it. It's just to point out this ambivalence. I'm sure that like Julius, I'm opening a hornet's nest and because this is a forum about shopping television, I'll end my contribution to the discussion here.

 

[Scout]

All I'm trying to point out is the illogicality of taking a stand against animals and humans suffering cruelty while still alive and at the same time denying vegetables/bacteria etc their right to existence.

It would only be illogical if you believe cabbages and bacteria are sentient.

 

[Tilley]

I couldn't even wear faux fur. I would feel I was condoning the fur trade.

 

[Julius]

It would only be illogical if you believe cabbages and bacteria are sentient.

This is what I mean when I say it's interesting to see where people draw the line, and what logic their argument shows. If we didn't eat cabbages and / or animals or any food then we would deny humanity its right to existence by starving ourselves to death in a mass suicide. A cabbage is a life form of sorts. We have humans, animals and vegetation, and seem to consider it ok to eat anything lower down the pecking order. If I'm not mistaken didn't the bible state it is ok to eat "everything that lives and moves," or something along those lines? (I am not particularly religious). This could be taken to mean that it is OK to eat other humans, yet this is very taboo! Can you imagine going into a pie shop and ordering "Asian man pie" made with real Asian men? Or how about "fox soup?" If it's OK to eat everything that lives and moves, why was there the commandment: "Thou shalt not kill?" Does this mean we can only eat animals / insects and people if they die of natural causes? Where do cabbages fit in with all that? It is great to be considerate to life, but one surely has to draw the line somewhere. There doesn't seem much sense from religion. Perhaps in a way animals are more intelligent than humans. They don't face such dilemmas. They just exist. A tree doesn't argue. It just is. With all our intelligence and capacity to think we humans have made a mess of our planet and are killing each other in the name of "religions" that condemn killing! It's madness! The same people that that preach respect for life wish such evil on Basso. It is that sort of mentality that causes wars!

 

[Tiddlywinks]

Some people won't buy or wear fur because they think it is cruel.

However, some of those same people will happily go to a supermarket / restaurant and buy the flesh of animals without a thought for how those creatures lived and died... the hell of the conditions they were bred in... the distress of their last few hours.

That is what I don't get.

I agree that Basso is a vile individual for his treatment of animals but... how many condone (and fund) the ill treatment of animals everyday by buying meat from supermarkets etc?

All I'm saying is, research what you are buying and then make your choices - choose to ignore the intensive farming methods and production line slaughter, take the less cruel route of buying free range or abstain entirely.

I'm just sick of the treatment of animals as a commodity - that is just as bad as Basso's crimes IMO.

We have become so distanced from our meat production that we are able to avoid seeing what actually happens.... and that eases the conscience... what the eye doesn't see and all that...

 

[Weathergirl]

Personally I prefer to eat chicken and eggs that are not just free range and corn fed, but massaged, manicured, pedicured and pampered in every way. I jest but I actually mean it. I like to know where my meat has come from, and am prepared to pay more for it. I hope the leather from my shoes and the very few leather handbags I own is a by product of the meat industry. I dont agree with hunting for sport, any kind of hunting even if it is "technically" pretending to be in accordance with the Hunting Act, or indeed the use of animals in "sport" of any kind. My everyday bags of choice are nylon kiplings. My make up and skin care are Mally and Judith Williams which may not be leaping bunny but are good enough for me. I will not wear fur. I will not eat fois gras. Although I don't choose to eat veal I wish I did in a way. Not because I like it but because the male calf is classed as a by product of the milk industry and where are many many thousands of male calves which would be exported to other european countries and treated extremely cruelly in the manner of how they are transported, kept and killed. "At least" if we buy British Veal it may result in less of these exports. The reality is as long as we drink cows milk, this is what will happen to male calves. So where do we all draw the line in the sand?

 

[Tiddlywinks]

... and those male calves will not have happy short lives and their mums will mourn them being taken from them... is that less cruel than the fur trade?

More acceptable to all those on here condemning Basso yet drinking milk in their tea?

 

[Julius]

I think some people just need to have a bandwagon to jump on in between visits to Marks & Spencer. "Ooooh animal rights." They think they can look down upon everyone who doesn't have a bunny symbol on their lipstick or handcream or whatever! Feminism is another bandwagon issue that people get all high and mighty about, asserting that someone is superior because they have a ******! I think there should be more to life than that. But some people pick an issue and feel all self-righteous, and it makes them feel good. They feel that in driving a Toyota Prius they are saving the world's water beetles, when in fact a bike would be a better option! I never did get why people drive around in a ton of metal to transport one person! Or they feel that they are saving the planet by recycling vast amounts of glass. Well the're NOT! ReUSING is much more energy efficient. The old British system of delivering milk bottles in funny little electric floats, reusing the bottles and having local dairies was actually brilliant and in a way ahead of its time. Now people drive to some horrible supermarket and buy massive bottles of milk for £1. I buy Yeo Valley organic for £1.88 for 2 litres! lool

 

[Julius]

Personally I prefer to eat chicken and eggs that are not just free range and corn fed, but massaged, manicured, pedicured and pampered in every way. I jest but I actually mean it. I like to know where my meat has come from, and am prepared to pay more for it. I hope the leather from my shoes and the very few leather handbags I own is a by product of the meat industry. I dont agree with hunting for sport, any kind of hunting even if it is "technically" pretending to be in accordance with the Hunting Act, or indeed the use of animals in "sport" of any kind. My everyday bags of choice are nylon kiplings. My make up and skin care are Mally and Judith Williams which may not be leaping bunny but are good enough for me. I will not wear fur. I will not eat fois gras. Although I don't choose to eat veal I wish I did in a way. Not because I like it but because the male calf is classed as a by product of the milk industry and where are many many thousands of male calves which would be exported to other european countries and treated extremely cruelly in the manner of how they are transported, kept and killed. "At least" if we buy British Veal it may result in less of these exports. The reality is as long as we drink cows milk, this is what will happen to male calves. So where do we all draw the line in the sand?

Now I have finally learned what veal is. The bovine equivalent of a lamb! Little male calves kept in crates and then chopped up, and sliced and diced, then lightly spiced! I find it curious how people worry so much about the conditions livestock are transported in. Has anyone been on the tube in London during the rush hour recently? Horrible! Yet we worry about flippin' veal calves! Why is it that buses have maximum seating / standing regulations yet the tube has none? It's so WEIRD!

 

[Julius]

OK it's time for choon of the day! And today it's "Poor Cow" by Tanita Tikaram. Classic song from the 80s!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JkWaJw6Yhs