These TSVs are no good for me. With my ultra fine & very difficult hair I take an eclectic approach. I use PK elasticizer (in preference to Ojon's smelly goo), I prefer the hydrating Ojon shampoo to thickening, even though the thickening ought to be better for me, I did not find it so and, if I am using a condtioner at all (which is rare), I use Akin lavender and jojoba light conditioner, which is perfect for my hair and smells absolutely divine!