Is it ACTUALLY Paraiba Tourmaline??

[wireless]

Is it ACTUALLY Paraiba Tourmaline ?

Or is just Light green and light blue Tourmaline, you can buy from Mozambique etc.

You can buy this the light blue/blue Tourmaline as cheap as chips per carat weight on Ebay or gem traders ie www.GemSelect/www.grandgemstones.com, ie under their Tourmaline section.

How do you tell the difference? I have pale blue Tourmaline ( I bought 1.5cts for US$33 and it has the neon brilliance and colour of any Paraiba Tourmaline.)

So how can you trust that you are ACTUALLY buying Paraiba Tourmaline not just readily available Light green/blue Tourmaline, on Telly Shopping?

Meshooo?

 

[Meeshoo]

In a word - "NO" - Whistle stop answer (which probably won't be because this subject incenses me)!

Basically "Paraiba" Tourmaline is accepted in the trade as having (a) the right chemical composition i.e. copper etc and (b) having a neon quality. If a stone just has copper that's NOT enough for it to be called a "Paraiba". It is a cuprian tourmaline i.e. copper bearing but that's it. The word Paraiba is now being used to sell any and all cuprian crap gemstones.

In reality there is virtually no good quality Paraiba Tourmaline on the market nowadays. What is for sale now and being marketed as Paraiba is, most definitely either Elbaite Tourmaline or, if copper bearing, Cuprian Tourmaline OR not great quality and highly included. Paraiba International have some but honestly I don't think they're great either. They used to have some phenomenal pieces but nowadays, like everybody else, they haven't got any of the quality that used to be around.

http://www.paraibainternational.com/index.php?cPath=4?sort=9a

Years ago, GemsTV had some wonderful Mozambique "Paraiba" Tourmaline that most definitely could be classed as such. Like the rest of the world, they haven't had any that would be classified or would sell for the high prices that Paraiba does for a number of years.

If you search my posts, you'll probably find examples of my PTs. Like a few other people I was exceptionally lucky to get a number of very neon pieces. They are by no means the best in the world but they can certainly hold their head up! Let me know if you can't find the piccies and I'll post again in The Drop.

 

[wireless]

Thank you for this , so a tourmaline that it is pale green/blue can be palmed off to any poor unsuspecting sole as Paraiba ...............huh!
I had my suspicions, and there is a jewellery channel around here that has a reputation for not being good with telling the truth!

 

[Meeshoo]

To be fair, GemsTV are not the only ones to do it.

If you ever take yours to Safeguard, the Valuer should whip out a colour chart and the value is graded by comparing to that chart. If you see the chart, you'll see what the best colour PT looks like. People are often shocked at how vibrant and neon they are because they actually look false!

 

[Sootoo]

I decided after reading your posts that I would get my best paraiba ring valued; so have made an appointment with safeguard for next wednesday morning. Will let you all know what they say. I am interested in the insurance value, and how good the stone is.

 

[Meeshoo]

I thought I'd give you a comparison - although to be fair these valuations by Safeguard was probably about 4 or 5 years ago now (possibly more).

These are two of the best Paraiba Tourmaline's that I bought from GemsTV. They were both really lucky finds as pieces with this sort of neon glow only popped up about 2 or 3 times a year and I was just in the right place at the right time.

Blue square pendant - I bought this for £525 and it was valued for £4,000 - so that's just over 7.5 times more than I paid (of course that it for insurance purposes). It's 3.45ct and you can see the colour for yourself!

Green ring (this was originally in the most awful yellow gold setting with horrible diamonds and I've since re-set it). This is 2.44ct and was bought for £775. This was valued (before being in this setting) for £4,875. Just over 6 times what I paid.

Lastly this was bought as a loose stone when Don brought a ton of loose items over. This was a very expensive purchase and was £1999 and it's 4.15ct - as you can see it has a mega window! This was valued (unset) for £6,000 but now it's set and a few years on it'll definitely be more.

Because of the shortage of Paraiba Tourmaline neon material and the size, these would probably be valued at much much more now. Probably double. I may take them to be re-valued just to be nosey!

Hope that helps.

 

[argeybargey]

Corr! Enough to make a girl start drooling over her lappie. xxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[wireless]

Thank you Meshoo.

Beautiful colour neon blue, not quite the colours you see now as Paraiba Tourmaline, the colours now look like the cheaper light blue/green tourmaline but being sold as Parabia

 

[Meeshoo]

Good Paraiba Tourmalines actually look fake and like Topaz or some such other gem!!!! That's another good way of telling a good one from a bad one apart!

In the first 3 photos below there are some Paraibas - not mine I hasten to add - but these photos really represent top notch material.

One other test you can do at home to see if yours glow is look at your stone in light and then put under a table into shade. Does it glow? Like it has a lightbulb inside?

 

[Sootoo]

Wow! Thanks Meeshoo they are so beautiful, and very interesting to compare. My stone is 2.67ct and a very nice colour but not as dark as yours, which look wonderful. It does have a good glow as I have tested in the shade. It is in platinum with two decent diamonds, I am really looking forward to the valuation day.

 

[Sootoo]

Sorry for hi jacking this thread, but I thought I would continue where I started. I had my Paraiba Tourmaline (Mozambique) valued today by Safeguard. It cost me £599 eighteen months ago and was given a minimum value today of £4250. She is going to do a bit more checking regarding the colour as she said when the paperwork comes through it could be worth more. I did say to her that it obvously was an insurance valuation, and she said it would be very difficult to replace. I am very pleased and delighted to share my good news. I have to thank Steve Bennett for such a bargain. Wish we could still get bargains as good.

 

[wireless]

I have just watched a sale of so called Paraiba Tourmaline on Gem Collector and for me personally I am not convinced , just looked like the cheap pale green tourmaline which is as cheap as chips to buy. However hard I squinted at the gem on screen , there wasn't much neon glow to me

 

[martinjay]

Sorry for hi jacking this thread, but I thought I would continue where I started. I had my Paraiba Tourmaline (Mozambique) valued today by Safeguard. It cost me £599 eighteen months ago and was given a minimum value today of £4250. She is going to do a bit more checking regarding the colour as she said when the paperwork comes through it could be worth more. I did say to her that it obvously was an insurance valuation, and she said it would be very difficult to replace. I am very pleased and delighted to share my good news. I have to thank Steve Bennett for such a bargain. Wish we could still get bargains as good.

I bet Safeguard, or anyone else, wouldn't actually buy it from you for £4,250.

These valuations are simply meant to make you feel good about your purchase and suggest how much you could con an insurance company out of should it get stolen.

Things are worth what people will pay for them.

 

[Meeshoo]

I bet Safeguard, or anyone else, wouldn't actually buy it from you for £4,250.

These valuations are simply meant to make you feel good about your purchase and suggest how much you could con an insurance company out of should it get stolen.

Things are worth what people will pay for them.

Sorry but you're totally wrong.

Safeguard are affiliated with the Birmingham Assay Office and are therefore highly respected within the industry and the one company whose valuations are very rarely challenged by insurance companies.

I would challenge you to find a 2.5ct proper Paraiba Tourmaline, buy it loose, then have a setting made (perhaps put some accent diamonds in) and have much spare change from the amount quoted in the insurance quote. You can easily buy rubbish Tourmalines that wouldn't be valued for much however good quality PT is exceptionally difficult to source now.

However, if this valuation had been done by a high street jewellers who really know nothing about the coloured gemstone market, I might agree but it's not.

This valuation is for insurance NOT re-sale.

No jewellery (or very limited items) will re-sell for more than the purchase price - this is why jewellery is NOT considered to be an investment unless the gemstone is exceptionally rare or difficult to source.

 

[martinjay]

Sorry but you're totally wrong.

Safeguard are affiliated with the Birmingham Assay Office and are therefore highly respected within the industry and the one company whose valuations are very rarely challenged by insurance companies.

I would challenge you to find a 2.5ct proper Paraiba Tourmaline, buy it loose, then have a setting made (perhaps put some accent diamonds in) and have much spare change from the amount quoted in the insurance quote. You can easily buy rubbish Tourmalines that wouldn't be valued for much however good quality PT is exceptionally difficult to source now.

However, if this valuation had been done by a high street jewellers who really know nothing about the coloured gemstone market, I might agree but it's not.

This valuation is for insurance NOT re-sale.

No jewellery (or very limited items) will re-sell for more than the purchase price - this is why jewellery is NOT considered to be an investment unless the gemstone is exceptionally rare or difficult to source.

You've simply confirmed the points I raised.

What's the point of a valuation for £4,250 if no one will pay that much for the item?

"No jewellery (or very limited items) will re-sell for more than the purchase price..." :mysmilie_483:

 

[wireless]

I agree with both points Meshoo made and Matinjay.
Jewellery is not an investment unless it is an outstanding genuine rare gem.
Insurance valuations are a scam because if you loose a piece chances are the insurance company would want to see the original invoice anyway but the high cost valuation just covers a replacement and don't forget that if you bought a piece for 599 pounds but got insured you would be paying the higher premium on the valuation of 4250.00 !!!!!
Take that 599 ring to an auction and it will probably make 500 on a good day.

What makes me apprehensive about Safeguard is that you only have to look at the website of Safeguard and Birmingham Assay Office and see that the home page are the same layout and design (so not so independent??????) and then a little bird tells me that Steve Bennet has his fingers in the pie and interests at Birmingham Assay Office.
So is it so independent????

I still want to know that all the pieces that are being sold on shopping channels as uncertified Paraiba Tourmaline are genuine Paraiba or just the cheap as chips pale gree/blue tourmaline and are the shopping channels regulated for this? Short of a valuation company doing a chemical test or having a Gemstone Certificate of authenticity , how would the verify it is Paraiba with high copper content not just washed out green tourmaline?

 

[Sootoo]

I have no illusion about what I could or could not sell my ring for if I was willing to sell it, which I am not. It is a ring with two 13pt SI diamonds and over six grams of platinum. If I had bought that from a local jeweller it would have cost a lot more than £599; so as far as I am concerned the tourmaline was free, and a very nice stone it is too. I doubt the extra cost of the insurance would be much, and don't forget that if you have items under insured it is as abd as not having them insured at all.

 

[wireless]

Sootoo,

I apologise if I offended, no offence intended.

Your ring sounds beautiful , especially in platinum, my fav.

It is the current stock of GemsTV Paraiba Tourmaline I wonder about?

Saying that I see Gems has a Lorique Paraiba on-line at mo and that is more the colour I associate with Paraiba , as Meshoo says almost looking artificial.

Sorry,

 

[Sootoo]

No problem Wireless I was interested in the response. Thanks x

 

[Meeshoo]

I apologise Wireless and Martinjay but I do not agree. This is why:

Let's say you bought a ring 5 years ago with a Paraiba Tourmaline for £600 (just using rounded up numbers).

Let's say the central gemstone - in this case a Paraiba Tourmaline - bought at that time when there was a lot on the market was sold to you at a very fair price.

You had the ring valued today and the replacement valuation (i.e. for you to buy the same ring at today's prices not it's worth or value) is £5,000.

You try to buy the same thing for £600. You can't. The reason you can't is because there is very little PT on the market and what is, is definitely NOT the quality from 5 years ago (that's assuming you bought well). That's fact and not disputable.

To buy the same size good quality PT now you need to really hunt around and then pay top dollar because it's in short supply. Fine, you can argue that you've paid a premium on a higher valuation and you will have. That's why it's absolutely non-sensical to insure and have valued pieces that you can easily buy today. A valuation via Safeguard is NOT an indication of worth or value (apologies for sounding like a presenter). It is the cost to replace if you lose it and takes into account having the item made from scratch by a jeweller, the gold weight, the accent diamonds, the cost of buying the central stone again.

Safeguard is independent and NOTHING to do with Steve Bennett. Safeguard are affiliated to the Birmingham Assay Office (which isn't hidden in any way) and who are also independent and NOTHING to do with Steve Bennett. He may get favourable rates to hallmark items because of the sheer volume (as other big jewellery importers will). He also knows them well because he's based near to them. Any more than that and it's just conspiracy theory. You may want to give Carla Hicks a call at Safeguard if you want assurances.

If KB sees this thread I hope she chimes in because she has worked in insurance and can confirm the above. In fact, there was thread on it some years ago so if you search you may be able to find it.

Martinjay - A valuation is not about value or worth. It is for insurance purposes only. Not re-sale. There are gemstones such as Alexandrite, unheated/untreated Rubies, Bixbite etc., where IF you have bought a very high grade gemstone, it may become an investment piece. However, for Topaz, Citrine, Amethyst etc., it's worth, typically, a fraction of what you pay because it's available for peanuts so akin to buying a new car and driving it off the forecourt - you immediately lose money. I would NEVER get such a piece valued or insured as it's a total waste of money.