Stop blaming the messenger!

[bingowings]

I think it's about time this forum started blaming the right people for bids problems. It's all well and good blaming the presenters but they are hardly the ones running the company and have hardly been given free-reign to do and say anything they want!! The producers, assistant producers, sales managers, broadcast managers and buyers will all brief the presenters before they go on air. There will be TV's all around the building showing Bid and price drop. Meaning the heads of department, the CEO and managers are watching and listening to all the sells. At any time they can pick up the phone to the gallery and order a change of tone, direction, tact etc. yet they haven't! It's clear to me that the presenters are just pawns who are instructed to present in a certain way. The idea that they just say and do what they want and nobody can stop them is none sense and ridiculous! The presenters are the ones taking the full force of the blame while those who are really responsible remain hidden and anonymous behind them. It wouldn't surprise me if there was a fair bit of manipulation taking place too. I can't help but notice the presenters that this forum hate the most are generally the ones with families are about to start families! Being a mum myself I know I would have done pretty much anything to keep a roof over my kids heads - regardless how much I hated doing it !

 

[redraw]

bingo are you taking the piss? the reason why the presenters get it in the neck is that they're the ones spouting the crap however you are right that the blame should't just be placed solely on the presenters but you already knew that though eh :mysmilie_10:

 

[KingEurope]

"Andy Hodgson should be fired!" - Bingowings said last week.

 

[bingowings]

"Andy Hodgson should be fired!" - Bingowings said last week.

He should be and by all accounts has been. It will be a miracle if he ever appears on bid tv again!

 

[bingowings]

bingo are you taking the piss? the reason why the presenters get it in the neck is that they're the ones spouting the crap however you are right that the blame should't just be placed solely on the presenters but you already knew that though eh :mysmilie_10:

I don't know why some people feel the need to use such awful language.

 

[bingowings]

If the company didn't want the presenters to 'spout crap' they would stop them. I can't imagine the presenters want to be in the firing line!

 

[deedee]

Give it a rest bingo, nobody's biting so save your vitriol for elsewhere

 

[bingowings]

Give it a rest bingo, nobody's biting so save your vitriol for elsewhere

Firstly this is a 'forum' a place where differing opinions can be presented and discussed. You may not like it nor welcome it but I'm affair it's the case. Secondly, although you may think you speak for everyone I'm sorry to inform you that you don't ! So why don't you give it a rest and allow people to express their own opinions instead of acting like a forum bully!

 

[deedee]

Of course you have your opinion, it's a forum.
My issue is when you insult other forum members along with their partners.
We are never rude or insulting towards each other, it's just not the done thing.
If you brought structured, valid arguments to the table you may have more credibility.
As for bullying? Show me how with clear, coherent and valid evidence and I'll consider adopting that mantle
I never profess to speak on behalf of others, my opinions are just that......mine......as your opinions are yours, but as I said, leave out the insults, rudeness and vitriol and you may get a more pleasant response.

 

[bingowings]

Of course you have your opinion, it's a forum.
My issue is when you insult other forum members along with their partners.
We are never rude or insulting towards each other, it's just not the done thing.
If you brought structured, valid arguments to the table you may have more credibility.
As for bullying? Show me how with clear, coherent and valid evidence and I'll consider adopting that mantle
I never profess to speak on behalf of others, my opinions are just that......mine......as your opinions are yours, but as I said, leave out the insults, rudeness and vitriol and you may get a more pleasant response.

It's my opinion that the presenters on bid tv are not entirely to blame. Hence my post. I didn't expect it to draw such a condescending appraisal of its structure and validity from you. But never mind. I'm sure you can justify it.

Your 'polite' and 'friendly' reply to my opinion was:

Give it a rest bingo, nobody's biting so save your vitriol for elsewhere

this forum does a fair bit of insulting people. But heaven forbid anyone says anything back at you. For me. That's the very definition of a bully! Attacking people who are not allowed to defend themselves.

 

[Paul_s]

As the presenter is the face of the company they will get the brunt of the complaints.

I've said before that those behind the scenes are as much to blame too.

Producers/Directors who haven't in the past corrected presenters when making false claims.
Poor research on products.
Poor presenter training (some of the presenters themselves have done this.... Andy Hodgeson, Nicola George (shudder) - she was Peter Simon's manager so that does say a lot I guess).

They're not as bad these days but it seems to have taken the re-alignment of the earth's axis for them to mention P&P, phone call charges etc etc.

The only other thing that bugs me is that if all this mis-management was going on behind the scenes - why didn't the presenters themselves have some morals and do the right thing (complain to their manager/say the RIGHT things on air). ? We'll never know.

 

[bingowings]

As the presenter is the face of the company they will get the brunt of the complaints.

I've said before that those behind the scenes are as much to blame too.

Producers/Directors who haven't in the past corrected presenters when making false claims.
Poor research on products.
Poor presenter training (some of the presenters themselves have done this.... Andy Hodgeson, Nicola George (shudder) - she was Peter Simon's manager so that does say a lot I guess).

They're not as bad these days but it seems to have taken the re-alignment of the earth's axis for them to mention P&P, phone call charges etc etc.

The only other thing that bugs me is that if all this mis-management was going on behind the scenes - why didn't the presenters themselves have some morals and do the right thing (complain to their manager/say the RIGHT things on air). ? We'll never know.

Great post Paul
These things come from the very top. The very top! Then feed their way downwards! If all the managers are singing from the same hymn sheet as their bosses then it must be tricky to complain. Either do as your told or sod off and find another job I'm guessing. I have realised the worst offenders are the people bid have by the balls.. The freelance presenters. I'm no expert but I would imagine its much easier to ax a freelance presenter than a member of staff? And I would imagine the threat of 'no work' is a real motivator for certain presenters.

 

[mr tom]

I have always said that the people who let them do/say the things they do/say are ultimately the real culprit

however... they cannot be held accountable for the specific things the presenters (possibly some of your faves) say.

The fact it is a regular occurance that isn't nipped in the bud by management is the true problem.

As for bullying, that is utter nonsense... this place is welcoming. i actually like mike mason and never get "mistreated" for it

 

[Bexi]

I can see some of your points, but then you start getting personal with other forum members and it distracts from your argument, bingowings.

 

[MrMobo]

The problem with your argument Bingo is one thing doesn't add up, when the ASA contact Bid/Pd they have said on numerous occasions that extra training has been given to certain serial offending presenters. Now add that to the fact that certain presenters have said they have recieved warnings.

Now that either points to management giving warnings to presenters for something that wasn't their fault and enforcing extra training on presenters that don't require it..... or they are lieing to the ASA and viewers which would be a very silly thing to do which in all honesty probably would of shown up on the ofcom report.

Personally I don't think any of us can really make an educated guess on who's to blame unless we know how presenters are payed in regard to bonuses or commission .... also the length of contracts the usual offending presenters currently hold.

Don't forget Steve said they can only have 3 warnings then that's it.

 

[mr tom]

The problem with your argument Bingo is one thing doesn't add up, when the ASA contact Bid/Pd they have said on numerous occasions that extra training has been given to certain serial offending presenters. Now add that to the fact that certain presenters have said they have recieved warnings.

Now that either points to management giving warnings to presenters for something that wasn't their fault and enforcing extra training on presenters that don't require it..... or they are lieing to the ASA and viewers which would be a very silly thing to do which in all honesty probably would of shown up on the ofcom report.

Personally I don't think any of us can really make an educated guess on who's to blame unless we know how presenters are payed in regard to bonuses or commission .... also the length of contracts the usual offending presenters currently hold.

Don't forget Steve said they can only have 3 warnings then that's it.

to be honest, i don't think they get any warnings. It's just another way to elicit sympathy from the viewer by painting people like us forumers as the vindictive villain.

 

[Paul_s]

to be honest, i don't think they get any warnings. It's just another way to elicit sympathy from the viewer by painting people like us forumers as the vindictive villain.

Perhaps the Sit-up warning system is like that of the totting up procedure when one commits an offence on the road.

If they reach 3 warnings then they appear before a Sit-up jury and plead;

a) ignorance
b) blame someone else
c) claim hardship
d) In Peter Simon's case the dock is surrounded in worry angels which means that the judges verdict is null and void.

:grin:

 

[MrMobo]

to be honest, i don't think they get any warnings. It's just another way to elicit sympathy from the viewer by painting people like us forumers as the vindictive villain.

I tend to take what Steve says with a pinch of salt but I remember that time when Peter Simon was angry and went on a rant, something had clearly upset him and used the crew to back up his claim about the product so he personally couldn't be held responsible. Also that lady Elise is it? Corrected him once and he looked really sad and she was like awww I'm only trying to protect you as we want you here (was something close to that).
IMO I believe certain measures have been taken to stop certain presenters from getting them in trouble again.

 

[mr tom]

Perhaps the Sit-up warning system is like that of the totting up procedure when one commits an offence on the road.

If they reach 3 warnings then they appear before a Sit-up jury and plead;

a) ignorance
b) blame someone else
c) claim hardship
d) In Peter Simon's case the dock is surrounded in worry angels which means that the judges verdict is null and void.

:grin:

haha paul you sausage

 

[mr tom]

I tend to take what Steve says with a pinch of salt but I remember that time when Peter Simon was angry and went on a rant, something had clearly upset him and used the crew to back up his claim about the product so he personally couldn't be held responsible. Also that lady Elise is it? Corrected him once and he looked really sad and she was like awww I'm only trying to protect you as we want you here (was something close to that).
IMO I believe certain measures have been taken to stop certain presenters from getting them in trouble again.

It seems though that those are plastic measures as they then are all too happy to indulge peter simons manipulation of the audience. I do see what you are saying though