Random musings and general banter.

[Hammy60]

Alien Guest Expert (say Alien as he's definitely living on another planet) - "You need to look right into that watch to see actually to see the Day/Night indicator at 6 o clock as well, it's the only watch on the show that has that beautiful feature which is very much a mark of expensive watches."


No it's not, the day/night feature it's a mark of the cheap Chinese watches using a 24 hour sub dial as a cheap alternative to the more expensive Moonphase feature, just like many Chinese watches are using Date and month sub dials and pushers to give the look of a Chronograph when they are not.

 

[Hammy60]

Laughing at them with the Opulent Racing Watch. Peter describing watch and pauses and the Idiot finishes off after Peter's Milanese faux pas.


Peter - "Customised Melanese, high polished"
Pause then
Idiot - "Engineers strap"


Actually looks more like a Chinese cross of an engineers and jubilee bracelet, ie has the two outer links that are bigger than the three inner links like a Jubilee but not as rounded and a bit flatter like the links on an engineers bracelet, but it doesn't have the five equal sized links across that an engineers bracelet has.

 

[Hammy60]

Oh and the really expensive and unusual two tone Melanese, which is such a complicated tricky process has been mastered by the Chinese, you can buy one for under a fiver on Ali.

3.06US $ 40% OFF|20 22mm Milanese Mesh Band for Samsung Galaxy Watch 3 42mm 46mm Active2 S3 for Huawei Watch GT2 46 2e Woven Mesh Steel Bracelet|Watchbands| - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

 

[Hammy60]

Ok the question I asked.

Well Peter Simon mentioned Swiss movement many times in the first few minutes of the show, so emailed to ask, as Peter was mention Swiss every second word can you ask the expert guest what make and caliber Swiss movement is in the watch?

That's not too much to ask is it?

Seems like a genuine question that a reputable watch retailer would happily answer, but obviously not IW.

So much for please email in with any questions you have.

 

[Hammy60]

So an update on the amazingly busy Swan & Edgar shows yesterday. Peter ended the last of 4 shows with telling us that hundreds were on the web, many will miss out loads of over allocations.

They started the day with 15 models and 29 colour variations

After 4 super busy shows they have 14 models and 27 colour variation, so sold out on one model, which was the world timer which has featured on many shows so probably the last of the stock and one other colour variation.

Wonder what happened to all the sell outs that were going to happen and the many over allocations they had.

Oh and of the 14 models that appeared on the two back to back shows last, on 13 models not once was it mentioned that they contained Chinese movements, on the 1 model they mentioned 29 times it had a Swiss movement. And they never answer my email question as to make and caliber of the movement.

 

[cheeky chappie]

Oh and the really expensive and unusual two tone Melanese, which is such a complicated tricky process has been mastered by the Chinese, you can buy one for under a fiver on Ali.

3.06US $ 40% OFF|20 22mm Milanese Mesh Band for Samsung Galaxy Watch 3 42mm 46mm Active2 S3 for Huawei Watch GT2 46 2e Woven Mesh Steel Bracelet|Watchbands| - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

Products are built to a cost and the objective is usually to make a profit. So if they're selling a watch for e.g. £199.99, there's a profit of some description on each unit sold whether just 1p or more, loss leaders aside. It's therefore relatively easy to deduce the broken down cost of each component within said watch won't be that high. As a consequence, we can conclude the process to produce the strap isn't overly expensive, as highlighted by your Ali find.

In short, they don't half speak some GUFF!

 

[cheeky chappie]

Ok the question I asked.

Well Peter Simon mentioned Swiss movement many times in the first few minutes of the show, so emailed to ask, as Peter was mention Swiss every second word can you ask the expert guest what make and caliber Swiss movement is in the watch?

That's not too much to ask is it?

Seems like a genuine question that a reputable watch retailer would happily answer, but obviously not IW.

So much for please email in with any questions you have.

Sorry Hammy but I'm with IW on this one, so BACK OFF!!!

When they refer to 'Swiss' in the case of some products, they are of course referring to the small island of Swiss off the north west Scottish coast, not always the country of Switzerland. It has a population of 7, one of whom is a 93 year old watch component maker called Michael McMilanese. Old Mike can make anything from a small screw for case work right up to complete watches. He doesn't need paid in cash and just asks for a bottle of whisky from his clients every now and again.

It'll be this 'Swiss' that IW were referring to.

That clear enough for you?!?

 

[cheeky chappie]

'Hello, this is Debbi from We Shaft You Insurance, how can I help?'

'Hi Debbi, I have a watch I'd like to add to my household insurance policy.'

'Oh lovely, is it a family heirloom or a gift from a loved one?'

'Neither, I bought it myself as part of my watch collection.'

'No problem, quite right, we need to treat ourselves now and again don't we. Okay, I just need to take some details. First of all, can you give me the make of watch and the approximate purchase price?'

'It's a Swan & Edgar and I paid £199.99 for it.'

(silence)

'Hello, hello, Debbi are you there?'

'Sorry, the other person has cleared ... sorry, the other person has cleared ...'

 

[Price Plunge]

With their 'super busy' Swan and Edgar shows, everything's "about to sell out" even though they kept going back to the same watches over and over again. Also if Swan and Edgar have never produced a ladies' watch before - exceptionally strange given decades of horological heritage based on a department store which presumably sold products for both men and women - how come it looks like one of the generic designs I've seen selling cheaply in cash converter-type outlets? And why do some their chronograph watch designs make a £20 Casio look like a Rolex by comparison?

Most peculiar indeed

 

[Hammy60]

Need sound effects here, need Vardy's horn noise.

Folks if you're not watching get on fast to IW, a FAMOUS duvet now on sale at IW, it's all the talk in the papers/media & Social media and EVERYBODY is talking about it and wants it, genius invention Sally boldly claims.

Sally suffers from cold feet apparently, another condition that can be added to the endless list of ailments/health woes she suffers from, strange she never mentions she suffers from chronic verbal diarrhea.

 

[Mommabear]

Need sound effects here, need Vardy's horn noise.

Folks if you're not watching get on fast to IW, a FAMOUS duvet now on sale at IW, it's all the talk in the papers/media & Social media and EVERYBODY is talking about it and wants it, genius invention Sally boldly claims.

Sally suffers from cold feet apparently, another condition that can be added to the endless list of ailments/health woes she suffers from, strange she never mentions she suffers from chronic verbal diarrhea.

Email in and tell her

She needs socks. Just read a FB question asking if they sell socks and if so, stuff a pair into Peter Simon’s mouth!

That wasn’t answered either

 

[Tricompax]

So an update on the amazingly busy Swan & Edgar shows yesterday. Peter ended the last of 4 shows with telling us that hundreds were on the web, many will miss out loads of over allocations.

They started the day with 15 models and 29 colour variations

After 4 super busy shows they have 14 models and 27 colour variation, so sold out on one model, which was the world timer which has featured on many shows so probably the last of the stock and one other colour variation.

Wonder what happened to all the sell outs that were going to happen and the many over allocations they had.

Oh and of the 14 models that appeared on the two back to back shows last, on 13 models not once was it mentioned that they contained Chinese movements, on the 1 model they mentioned 29 times it had a Swiss movement. And they never answer my email question as to make and caliber of the movement.

I wonder how many they actually sell, must be enough to warrant a slot in the programming and can't see that been cheap. Every 45min slot must have a production cost.
Are there people who actually collect these watches? Are there enough "normal" watch buyers who just want a watch and choose a S&E, when they are on a show? They always have them on at regular intervals.
The other thing I wonder, how much they make per watch both Ideal and the Fields.

 

[Hammy60]

I wonder how many they actually sell, must be enough to warrant a slot in the programming and can't see that been cheap. Every 45min slot must have a production cost.
Are there people who actually collect these watches? Are there enough "normal" watch buyers who just want a watch and choose a S&E, when they are on a show? They always have them on at regular intervals.
The other thing I wonder, how much they make per watch both Ideal and the Fields.

I'll try and find the link, was a couple of years ago since i last looked at it, but IW charge approx £14,000 back then for the hire of the studio for an hour, with one presenter. That's for brands like My pension, Emma, Everest, etc, whom IW don't sell direct to the customer but provide the web site address or phone number for Customers to go to, just a glorified advert hour long advert. Of Course the programs are now 45 minute and it's 2 years later so price may be different. But it may give a rough idea as to what sales IW may have to do in an hour to make money. Last night's 90 minute show had 28 different watches (allowing for the different colour variations) on offer, say average price was £100 and if the sold even 5 of each watch, then that's 140 watches at a £100 = £14000, and they probably sold more than that because of an answer to another of your questions, ie there are lots of uninformed mugs out there.
I think they have a lot of folks, new to watch collecting and are collecting these watches, and the other made in China brands, thinking they're putting together a decent watch collection at really affordable price, sure there will be quite a few folks just buying an odd watch for themselves or as a presents, but for some strange reason IW seem to have attracted a mass of new folks to watch collecting, who have little knowledge of watches and all they are learning/ have learned is from IW and their guests. Reading some of the revues, it's quite clear that folks have been taken in by the sales patter and lies on IW and are making up collections consisting of Swan & Edgar, Constantin Weisz, The Resultco brands, CCCP etc etc.

As to how much they make per watch, the first watches Swan & Edgar had on IW were just rebranded Ali Express watches, at least now they have advanced to picking different watch options (case, movement, dial, hands, colour etc) themselves probably through HKTDC, but the wholesale cost will still be similar, at that time they were selling on IW at least 4 times the price of the same watch on Ali, and of course the price on Ali is a retail price not the wholesale price. So plenty of mark up to be split between Fields Luxury and IW so both can make a big profit or make a smaller profit but increase sales by giving bigger discounts from the inflated RRPs.

On Swan & Edgar Site at the moment RRP for this watch is £190.

Complexity Automatic | British Watches | Swan & Edgar

The Hand Assembled Complexity Automatic is a highly sophisticated timepiece and is referred to as the ‘Clean Sweep’, due to the sweeping second hand.

swanandedgar.london

It's just a rebranded Ali watch, which is £25 retail on Ali (as i say wholesale will be even less, prob nearer £15)

32.97US $ 52% OFF|OUYAWEI Skeleton Automatic Mechanical Men Wristwatch Leather Strap Classic White Tourbillon male Watch Relojes Hombre Gifts|Mechanical Watches| - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

So if I remember that watch sold around the £120/£130 mark originally on IW so plenty of profit to be made.

 

[Hammy60]

Clawley- " you made a very important point there, on value for money, if you look at a Swiss brand say omega for example, prices are only going up, they're starting at £4000/£5,000 now, so to have that specification, sapphire crystal lens, stainless steel, hand finished genuine leather, ETA 2834, that is absurd to be under £700, really is."


Why compare with Omega, they are not comparable, Gevril is not in the same league as Omega. Why not compare to a like for like , similar quality, say Hamilton, their watches with same specs and same movement are around the £500 mark.
Nothing like making a totally false/irrelevant comparison to try and fool folks into thinking they are getting some high end luxury watch when they are not.

 

[Hammy60]

Oh and now we have the GV2 watches with the Ruben & Sons MD3G which is just a Miyota 8 series assembled in Switzerland with a Gevril custom Rotor and hey presto you've got a Swiss made movement and watch.

And the lowest RRP on their site for a GV2 with an MD3G is $3,000 +, imagine paying over $3000 for a watch with a miyota 8 series movement in it.

No more IW now, off to watch the tennis.

 

[Price Plunge]

Those Gevril (or Gerbil as I like to think of them) watches basically look well-made but at the same time they're well-overpriced. Plus anything with a 'fake' RRP (yes Mark you are telling the truth when you say IW doesn't set the RRP values; it's made-up nonsense from the distributor or manufacturer) I wouldn't touch with a bargepole regardless.

 

[Tricompax]

I'll try and find the link, was a couple of years ago since i last looked at it, but IW charge approx £14,000 back then for the hire of the studio for an hour, with one presenter. That's for brands like My pension, Emma, Everest, etc, whom IW don't sell direct to the customer but provide the web site address or phone number for Customers to go to, just a glorified advert hour long advert. Of Course the programs are now 45 minute and it's 2 years later so price may be different. But it may give a rough idea as to what sales IW may have to do in an hour to make money. Last night's 90 minute show had 28 different watches (allowing for the different colour variations) on offer, say average price was £100 and if the sold even 5 of each watch, then that's 140 watches at a £100 = £14000, and they probably sold more than that because of an answer to another of your questions, ie there are lots of uninformed mugs out there.
I think they have a lot of folks, new to watch collecting and are collecting these watches, and the other made in China brands, thinking they're putting together a decent watch collection at really affordable price, sure there will be quite a few folks just buying an odd watch for themselves or as a presents, but for some strange reason IW seem to have attracted a mass of new folks to watch collecting, who have little knowledge of watches and all they are learning/ have learned is from IW and their guests. Reading some of the revues, it's quite clear that folks have been taken in by the sales patter and lies on IW and are making up collections consisting of Swan & Edgar, Constantin Weisz, The Resultco brands, CCCP etc etc.

As to how much they make per watch, the first watches Swan & Edgar had on IW were just rebranded Ali Express watches, at least now they have advanced to picking different watch options (case, movement, dial, hands, colour etc) themselves probably through HKTDC, but the wholesale cost will still be similar, at that time they were selling on IW at least 4 times the price of the same watch on Ali, and of course the price on Ali is a retail price not the wholesale price. So plenty of mark up to be split between Fields Luxury and IW so both can make a big profit or make a smaller profit but increase sales by giving bigger discounts from the inflated RRPs.

On Swan & Edgar Site at the moment RRP for this watch is £190.

Complexity Automatic | British Watches | Swan & Edgar

The Hand Assembled Complexity Automatic is a highly sophisticated timepiece and is referred to as the ‘Clean Sweep’, due to the sweeping second hand.

swanandedgar.london

It's just a rebranded Ali watch, which is £25 retail on Ali (as i say wholesale will be even less, prob nearer £15)

32.97US $ 52% OFF|OUYAWEI Skeleton Automatic Mechanical Men Wristwatch Leather Strap Classic White Tourbillon male Watch Relojes Hombre Gifts|Mechanical Watches| - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

So if I remember that watch sold around the £120/£130 mark originally on IW so plenty of profit to be made.

Thank you, as ever for an interesting and comprehensive reply.

 

[Professor Branestawm]

Clawley- " you made a very important point there, on value for money, if you look at a Swiss brand say omega for example, prices are only going up, they're starting at £4000/£5,000 now, so to have that specification, sapphire crystal lens, stainless steel, hand finished genuine leather, ETA 2834, that is absurd to be under £700, really is."


Why compare with Omega, they are not comparable, Gevril is not in the same league as Omega. Why not compare to a like for like , similar quality, say Hamilton, their watches with same specs and same movement are around the £500 mark.
Nothing like making a totally false/irrelevant comparison to try and fool folks into thinking they are getting some high end luxury watch when they are not.

During the lockdown, I bought a couple of Tissot watches, online, from Watches of Switzerland. Ironically, both had Milanese straps, both used the ETA 2834, and both were - exactly £299. Sapphire glass back and front, applied batons, enamel dials (One coBalt blue, one silver).
As you say, Hamilton - or Tissot - are more obvious comparators to Gevril than Omega, and if you choose carefully (TKMaxx also often has good online prices on both Hamilton and Tissot - and you can have a good laugh at the TKMaxx Swan and Edgar prices while you browse), then you can have either for a great deal less than Crawley was implying.

I just feel so sorry for anyone taken in by the IW brands into trying to build a collection. Most of their brands’ output, I would expect, won’t make it past their first service. That is, of course, if you can find anyone willing to service them.
Aside from anything else, they need a good waterproofing to survive the Peter Simon spluttering and spitting treatment!

 

[cheeky chappie]

We sell over 370,000 products on our Marketplace, aren't we great! they boast.

Not really. Amazon sell 12+ million different products. Add their Marketplace sellers and this increases to 350+ million different products.

 

[Hammy60]

Those Gevril (or Gerbil as I like to think of them) watches basically look well-made but at the same time they're well-overpriced. Plus anything with a 'fake' RRP (yes Mark you are telling the truth when you say IW doesn't set the RRP values; it's made-up nonsense from the distributor or manufacturer) I wouldn't touch with a bargepole regardless.

The Gevril branded watches are decent quality, still made in the old Gevril factory, although they've had two different owners since the Gevril name was aquired and they resurrected brand. I have one of their diver watches, but it has an ETA from before they started using Sellitas in their dive watches. It's well made and good quality, would say if anybody buying look for a price in the £500/£600 range at most, slightly cheaper better. Definitely nowhere near the quality of the RRPs though.

The GV2 range on the other hand is different, they made well made but the movement is just a Miyota that's been assembled in Switzerland to have the Swiss made tag, why i don't know, but it certainly lowers the value of the range. The simple fact they are doing that with the GV2 means they are a no no to buy.