Pippa's student card

[petpixie]

Ooops. I seem to have opened up a can of worms!

As wife and mother of a family who, being self employed, has never claimed anything in our entire working lives, I'm afraid I'm unfamiliar with the system. In our world you don't get a penny that you've not grafted for. No sick pay, no holiday pay, no free this and that. In fact if you're not physically working, there's no money coming in. Simple as that.

If my opening post offended anyone then I apologise.

You seem to be presuming that the posters replying to your OP are familiar with the system and claiming 'benefit'.
We all inhabit the same world and the benefits system is there as a safety net for when people have little or no money coming in. You are perfectly entitled along with the rest of the UK to access said benefits when needed.
However imo a student discount card doesn't fall into a benefit category ~ as far as I'm aware it's the retailers and not the government who pay.

 

[Silver Fox]

If Pippa is a student she can register & use her Student Union card.I was doing my M.A when working full time & didn't do this, but that was my choice.When I was still working I felt should I be claiming my Winter Fuel Allowance.Admitted I didn't need it BUT I have worked full time for over 40 years, paid tax, national insurance, claimed nothing ( no child benefits etc.) so then my conscience evaporated.Now as a pensioner I love my 'bus pass' & anything else I can get.Work for it & get what you are due to!

 

[argeybargey]

Ooops. I seem to have opened up a can of worms!

As wife and mother of a family who, being self employed, has never claimed anything in our entire working lives, I'm afraid I'm unfamiliar with the system. In our world you don't get a penny that you've not grafted for. No sick pay, no holiday pay, no free this and that. In fact if you're not physically working, there's no money coming in. Simple as that.

If my opening post offended anyone then I apologise.

Oh dear Bensmum, the hole is getting deeper What about those of us who grafted all our lives with massive PAYE and Class 1 NI, some of us in the past additionally paid Graduated Pension and SERPS. They can't register for VAT so never get it repaid and they all have to pay their own expenses after tax, can't claim against tax for travel and use of home, etc. As an ex PA to a Chartered Accountant shall I go on? :happy: xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[apple]

Ooops. I seem to have opened up a can of worms!

As wife and mother of a family who, being self employed, has never claimed anything in our entire working lives, I'm afraid I'm unfamiliar with the system. In our world you don't get a penny that you've not grafted for. No sick pay, no holiday pay, no free this and that. In fact if you're not physically working, there's no money coming in. Simple as that.

If my opening post offended anyone then I apologise.

You win my award for most pompous post of the week.

 

[Bensmum]

Oh dear Bensmum, the hole is getting deeper What about those of us who grafted all our lives with massive PAYE and Class 1 NI, some of us in the past additionally paid Graduated Pension and SERPS. They can't register for VAT so never get it repaid and they all have to pay their own expenses after tax, can't claim against tax for travel and use of home, etc. As an ex PA to a Chartered Accountant shall I go on? :happy: xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

No need argeybargey. My husband is a Chartered Accountant.

All I was saying in my opening post was that Pippa obviously has a good income from her various jobs so to make a point about getting 10% off some event she went to, was in my humble opinion, comparing herself to a hard up student for whom 10% would mean an awful lot.

 

[Bensmum]

You win my award for most pompous post of the week.

Oh dear. A huge chip on the shoulder is not a good look.

 

[London]

There are and always will be somethings deemed to be unfair, I'm sure we can all think of quite a few (the rediculousness of the cart blanche for child benefit and don't get me started on impending university fees!!!!).

My son did not qualify for the EMA at 6th form, but our salaries are still not enough to cover any nice extras like holidays, whereas my son's friend is able to receive it due to the fact that his parents income is below the threshold BUT his parents have paid off their mortgage so daddy retired at the age of 48 with a fat pension and mummy does charity work and they enjoy a couple of holidays a year. They have told him how to invest his £30 pw wisely and no doubt will have a couple of grand to add to the family's heap soon - bitter moi?

(I'm not really - they are a lovely family :envy::envy::envy

 

[RedRose]

Bensmum, I understand where you're coming from about self-employed people. My husband hasn't taken more than the odd day's holiday for several years because we can't afford to lose the income, let alone actually go away. And I shall say nothing about Corporation Tax except GRR.

I have had my eyes opened recently to the evils of the benefits system, not for me but people I know. I was shocked to learn how hard it is to be deemed eligible as the forms are designed for most people to fail the criteria (for example, there are no questions at all relating to mental health, only things like "can you walk for 20 yards" - so you can be suffering a terminal illness but still be considered fit for work or have severe crippling mental problems and be considered perfectly healthy), how benefits get stopped and people have to survive for months with no income while appeals go through etc etc. I am appalled that anyone should be treated this way and just thank my lucky stars I have not had to go through what other hard-working (and non-hardworking!) people have had to.

 

[depplover]

My son got the the full entitlement of EMA because of our income at the time He studied because he wanted to not for the money. He is now at uni doing a masters in medicinal chemistry and his dream job would be as a research scientist for cancer research - don't tar all students with the same brush.

 

[madmax]

Having just endured a 4 month "discussion" with the DWP I can assure you that no one I know is living the high life if they are on benefits. I had NO money at all for the 4 months I was dealing with DWP and am still trying to work out how I am meant to pay a
£200 pm mortage when I only have £390 pm in benefit, and I have all of the normal household expences as well.

 

[Nannylea]

Having just endured a 4 month "discussion" with the DWP I can assure you that no one I know is living the high life if they are on benefits. I had NO money at all for the 4 months I was dealing with DWP and am still trying to work out how I am meant to pay a
£200 pm mortage when I only have £390 pm in benefit, and I have all of the normal household expences as well.

What a worry for you, I hope the mortgage company will be understanding and won't put any more pressures on you. xx

 

[kirkiegirl]

Oh dear Bensmum, the hole is getting deeper What about those of us who grafted all our lives with massive PAYE and Class 1 NI, some of us in the past additionally paid Graduated Pension and SERPS. They can't register for VAT so never get it repaid and they all have to pay their own expenses after tax, can't claim against tax for travel and use of home, etc. As an ex PA to a Chartered Accountant shall I go on? :happy: xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Self employed people can claim VAT back on business payments only, not personal ones, and if they get personal expenses paid by the business those are charged to their Capital Account not Profit & Loss Account which means the tax liability is not reduced so they too are paying personal expenses out of net income. Re travel, the cost of travel from home to work is not an allowable expense for tax purposes but expenses incurred on travelling on business from place of work is allowable. There are very strict rules which prohibit claiming for personal travel. If an employee has to travel on business they would normally be reimbursed meaning there is no cost to them.
The above only refers to sole traders or partnership. Accounts are prepared and tax is calculated differently if the owners of the business have set up a company but again, personal expenses do not qualify for VAT relief and they are not tax deductible. I would like to think that most people are honest in what they claim but after working for years as a CA I know that is unfortunately not always the case.

 

[StumpyBloke (old account)]

don't tar all students with the same brush.

Who and/or which post is this directed at?

Rich

 

[SuziQ]

Loveinamist, I apolgise for sumarising 'not wanting to go to school' and 'needing motivation' as 'lazy'. Not quite sure what your point is, but as you are being so picky, maybe you would like to re-read my post, and tell me where I implied you were a well off family? I specifically added a sentance at the end of the post, acknlwledging the people just on the threshold or just over like yourselves are often in the most difficult position.

I still imagine you were in a much better position than I was at the time, even having a partner at home put you and your child in a much stronger position than me and mine
.
Maybe you would like to say how much fairer it could have been done? Any such benefit is always going to be means-tested, and there will always be a cut off point-with disgruntled people just on the other side.

For years when I was working hard in the health service I was entitled to no help with anything, and you know what? I would love to be back in that position now. From the sounds of things your child was very well supported by her parents, did very well indeed and continues to do so. You have done a great job. So I'm not quite sure why you are so bitter about £30 a week, when it benefited many thousands of kids like my daughter.There will always be people receiving any benefit or grant who don't make the best use of it, and that shouldn't mean throwing the baby out with the bathwater. If those kids hadn't been at college, I wonder how many of them would have been drawing job seekers, at twice the cost to the government? At least going to college gave them a CHANCE of bettering themselves, and maybe there were kids around the country who didn't originally want to go but did, and came out of it with improved prospects.
Just a thought.

 

[delh]

My daughter never got EMA because it was introduced the year after she started in sixth form so she was in school with some very distruptive pupils for the final year of her A levels who were there simply to get the allowance, not all of them, and those who wanted to be there were the ones that carried on thankfully the distruptive ones soon got bored and stopped turning up.

Benefits are there for everyone but the student discount card is not a benefit it is a perk which students who register and pay for their student cards can enjoy, its not funded out of taxes so if Pippa has chosen to pay for her card then she has every right to use it.

The benefit system in this country is being abused by some but not by all but then so is the tax system, those who can afford an accountant can avoid paying taxes and the great shame is that given the situation this country (and others) are in it is the benefit system and public services that are being targeted to claw back money. Nothing at all seems to be being done about the billions lost by tax avoidence every year.

There was an interesting article in the guardian a few weeks back about changes in the way corporate tax will be calculated which is going to cost this country billions at the same time as the public service is being decimated and benefits for thise who need them cut

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/feb/07/tax-city-heist-of-century

I'm all for rooting out benefit abusers but the goverment should be doing the same with tax avoiders and we as a country should be expending our energies in ensuring that they know thats what we want and not worrying about someone who has paid for a student card getting a little bit of discount which is not funded by us anyway

 

[Bensmum]

If you read my opening post you will see that at no point was the benefits system mentioned.

As stated previously, my point was that Pippa is quite clearly not a hard-up student struggling to make ends meet.

I do wish certain people on here would lighten up and stop reading things that simply aren't there.

 

[argeybargey]

Self employed people can claim VAT back on business payments only, not personal ones, and if they get personal expenses paid by the business those are charged to their Capital Account not Profit & Loss Account which means the tax liability is not reduced so they too are paying personal expenses out of net income. Re travel, the cost of travel from home to work is not an allowable expense for tax purposes but expenses incurred on travelling on business from place of work is allowable. There are very strict rules which prohibit claiming for personal travel. If an employee has to travel on business they would normally be reimbursed meaning there is no cost to them.
The above only refers to sole traders or partnership. Accounts are prepared and tax is calculated differently if the owners of the business have set up a company but again, personal expenses do not qualify for VAT relief and they are not tax deductible. I would like to think that most people are honest in what they claim but after working for years as a CA I know that is unfortunately not always the case.

I truly mean no offence Kirkiegirl but I really did find your response somewhat patronising. Do you think I don't know all that? For the self-employed you must well know that the line between private and business use/expemses becomes very muddled, even for the well qualified. In my experience, the vast proportion of the self-employed are based at home and thus travelling is allowable. The same applies with VAT and Capital Allowances, how many items are bought for "business use" that can also be used privately. Personally, I do not believe that "most people are honest in what they claim". I remember one twit trying really hard to claim a cheap umbrella. An insurance salesman who said he never needed the umbrella if he wasn't "out knocking on doors".

From so many you'll get carrier bags packed full of every receipt for every item they ever bought and, having spent an age wading your way through these, the client's hope is that you'll let a lot through because you simply don't know. Hmm - sounds familiar - MPs expenses claims spring to mind. I'm very retired now and dredging this up from my old brain I have bored myself so I do apologise to everyone, particularly the OP as this is off topic somewhat but I needed to reply.

To close, I would just say to you Kirkiegirl that you are either extremely lucky with your client base, or too trusting if you think most people are honest in what they claim. The temptation is simply too great and many an Accountant will actually encourage them to consider very carefully whether they use that fridge in the kitchen for business purposes, if they think it can be got by the Tax Inspector. It's their job after all. xxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[BurlyBeaR]

The benefit system in this country is being abused by some but not by all but then so is the tax system, those who can afford an accountant can avoid paying taxes and the great shame is that given the situation this country (and others) are in it is the benefit system and public services that are being targeted to claw back money. Nothing at all seems to be being done about the billions lost by tax avoidence every year.

we have to recognise the difference between tax avoidance which is legal and tax evasion which is not.
companies or individuals using accountants to find ways of reducing their tax bill is no different to you and me trawling the internet to find ways of avoiding paying full price for an airline seat or hotel room. no-one with any common sense pays the full price if they can avoid it. these people are not taking money off the country because the money was never there to begin with. Tax evasion is a different matter entirely of course.

as for benefits cheats, yes i know that not everyone who is on benefits is a scrounger by a long stretch, the problem is the hundreds of thousands of people who are screwing the system, and the rest of us because they have apparently no shame in taking money from the state and no will or intention to contribute anything back.

having said all that, whats it got to do with pippa and her NUS card?

 

[delh]

Bens mum you didnt mention the beneits system I know that but you did say there was something wrong with the system in your opinion and I think that this phrase is what people have latched onto. I was only replying to other posts not just yours.

Burly bear I have to disagree tax avoidence is as bad as benefit cheating. If someone manipulates the tax system, claiming for things that are not for buisness use etc. to pay less then they legally should that is no different to someone manipulating the benefits system to gain more than they are legally eintitled too. Both are as bad as each other, both are dishonest. The problem is that the honest people are the ones who get penalised for the ones who think its OK to fiddle the system be it tax or benefit. We all end up paying more to make the shortfall up for the ones who seem to think they dont have to live by the same rules as the rest of us.

As for Pippas student card I did say that if she has paid for it then she is eintitled to use it

 

[BurlyBeaR]

Bens mum you didnt mention the beneits system I know that but you did say there was something wrong with the system in your opinion and I think that this phrase is what people have latched onto. I was only replying to other posts not just yours.

Burly bear I have to disagree tax avoidence is as bad as benefit cheating. If someone manipulates the tax system, claiming for things that are not for buisness use etc. to pay less then they legally should that is no different to someone manipulating the benefits system to gain more than they are legally eintitled too. Both are as bad as each other, both are dishonest. The problem is that the honest people are the ones who get penalised for the ones who think its OK to fiddle the system be it tax or benefit. We all end up paying more to make the shortfall up for the ones who seem to think they dont have to live by the same rules as the rest of us.

As for Pippas student card I did say that if she has paid for it then she is eintitled to use it

sorry to be pedantic but that's evasion, not avoidance and on that basis i agree with you.