Paraiba Tourmaline ... Laser drilled?

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Saffy

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While trawling through the Ebay USA site I came across a 6+ carat Gems TV paraiba tourmaline ring complete with the certificate of authenticity. It also had a jewellers appraisal valuation certificate stating that it had been laser drilled to enhance clarity.
Can anybody tell me if this is normal procedure with GemsTV's paraibas? I know that they are routinely heated but had no idea any drilling went on!
 
OMG that's awful. However, I don't understand why a Tourmaline would be laser drilled. Lasers typically get rid of carbon in diamonds. Filling of tourmalines perhaps but laser drilling? That's odd. Do you have the link please?
 
I thought so too! You can find it on ebay.com. The auction finished on 30th July but the item No is: 170672897316
 
Woah! That's an old piece as well. It was sold by GemsTV (USA) according to the authenticity card.

I know that Tourmalines are irradiated and there's also evidence of having fissures filled (to enhance clarity) but I haven't heard of laser drilling and can't see why or how that would help? I'm doing some research and will come back to you.

If laser drillling isn't applicable I wonder if the person who appraised the stone was seeing a copper needle and (wrongly) thought it was a laser spike???? It's a long shot but who knows. I'm going to see if anybody knows about laser drilling and will post up when I find out.
 
Interestingly, there's silence on the subject from some of the experts I know. I'm going to keep digging and will update when I find out.
 
Ok ............ here we go (hope this helps).

Paraiba is an extremely rare type of Elbaite Tourmaline. To be classified as a Paraiba, a stone has to be (a) copper bearing - and this type of tourmaline is called Cuprian. There are many Cuprian tourmalines but only a small portion are Paraibas because (b) a Paraiba also must have a certain hue, saturation and the glow and neon colour associated with a proper Paraiba and (c) for purists, must also come from Brazil.

So in a nutshell, Cuprian Tourmalines (i.e. tourmalines coloured by copper) are NOT all Paraibas. However, if a Tourmaline has copper you will often see them being sold as "Paraiba".

The one in the link above is a good example of a Cuprian but NOT a Paraiba. To be a Paraiba the colour needs to scream out of the page and look false!

When I first started collecting I honestly thought if something was called Paraiba then it was one! (Yes, I know, naive!). A few years later after being lucky enough to own a few proper Paraiba Tourmalines, I realised the difference! I have around 50 or 60 and of that number I would honestly only classify about 5 or 6 of them as proper Paraibas. I very very very rarely see one I would classify as "Paraiba" nowadays. The only ones on the market are either EXTREMELY expensive or not a stone worthy of the Paraiba title!

Hope that helps. Let me know if you need any more info and I'll try to help.
 
Thanks Meeshoo, we live and learn! I have another PT that has good colour neon blue green(very bright) and glows, although it has some inclusions, from what you saying, this is probably my only PT
 
I don't know Sapphireblue because I haven't seen your collection! :giggle: If you bought it recently, the answer would be that it probably isn't unless you had a number of zeros on the selling price. If you bought it 5 years ago or more then maybe.

All I will say is that I THOUGHT I had a number of Paraibas until I got myself one that literally blew me away! It's difficult to judge because what one person calls Paraiba another wouldn't. I'm a fussy mare so what I would consider to be a Paraiba compared to what most would I'm sure will differ.

To give you an example, most of my Cuprians are nice and glowy and have a neon quality (in dim lighting especially) BUT compared to the ones I believe WOULD be classed as Paraiba, they look pale by comparison. The other issue is that photos do not do great ones justice. You get a sense but because the photo is flat you miss the startling "in yer face" colour!!!!
 
Ok - I have a few answers!

As I suspected, using a laser on a tourmaline isn't common. There's hardly any information available on it. Irradiation, heating and to an extent fissure fillling yes but not laser drilling. However, if this stone really has evidence of laser drilling it could be because:-

(a) The stone didn't have any rutile needles, a laser could be used to add some in. This is incredibly deceptive.
(b) The laser was used to aid the process of fracture filling. You've got to ask that if this stone has been filled then (1) is it stable and (2) What has it been filled with? Tourmalines can be oiled/filled with an epoxy or resin.

Whatever the case, IF this stone has been laser drilled, it's virtually worthless. Interestingly, one of the experts said that he believes this stone started off nearly black and has been heated to achieve the colour it is now. Obviously that's just his guess and may not be right as it's very difficult to tell from a photograph. Heating of Tourmalines has been a pretty common practice and irradiation is now prevalent also.

So should you buy it? Well, it's up to you. I wouldn't touch it with anybody''s bargepole.

If I get any more information, I'll post it up.
 
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Thanks again Meeshoo for all your hard work on this matter. I now find myself wondering what this means to all the people who have bought paraibas from GemsTV in the past?
 
Honestly, I don't know. I've had all my major purchases looked at and have the ability to identify laser drilling and am pretty confident that most of mine haven't. However, I may have to get them out again and have a look.

Treatments are getting more and more aggressive and as fast as one is discovered, others are being used. It's a continual process of catch up. So it wouldn't surprise me to find they've been lasering tourmalines for years (although I suspect that if it were prevalent, it would have been more commonly known). Interestingly, I went to GemsTV's website to the treatments bit to see what they say about tourmalines but there's absolutely nothing apart from a useless PDF that is generic. However, on the Rocks&Co website (which I believe used a very similar treatment page to GemsTV as I think it was written by the same person), their treatments declared for Tourmaline do not include laser drilling.

Basically, if I bought a stone undisclosed that had lasering I would want my money back AND more! Lasering (in my book) renders a stone almost worthless - perhaps a bit of a strong comment - but certainly undermines the value greatly.

I hope that helps.
 
Hi Meeshoo,

Thank you for the update. Based on your comments, my three PT need to be checked. I paid several thousand of pounds back in 2006. I think that I paid too much and now they could be worthless! How dishonest.
My jeweller gave a name of a company in hatton garden. I think I am going to have to bite the bullet and find out what i have bought. If they are laser filled i will demand a full refund.
 
Sapphireblue said:
Hi Meeshoo,

Thank you for the update. Based on your comments, my three PT need to be checked. I paid several thousand of pounds back in 2006. I think that I paid too much and now they could be worthless! How dishonest.
My jeweller gave a name of a company in hatton garden. I think I am going to have to bite the bullet and find out what i have bought. If they are laser filled i will demand a full refund.
Click to expand...

Sapphireblue - you need to send your stones to a reputable lab NOT a jeweller or valuer. There are a couple of routes I'd suggest. The first is to contact The Birmingham Assay Office. They have labs in the UK but there are some things they can't test for. However, looking for laser drilling and filling is relatively easy so I'm pretty sure they can do that. The alternative would be to send them to AGL. AGL have a great reputation and their lab reports are considered to be of the highest quality for coloured stones. Here's a link to their website: http://www.aglgemlab.com/services/ A note of the types of report you can get is at the bottom of the page together with an indication of cost etc. As you'd be shipping from the UK, I would definitely call them first and ask about postage and how they would ship everything back to you. The great thing about AGL is that they will happily discuss your stone and what they've found on the phone so it's a very personal service.

Just be warned ............ even if the stones come back as laser drilled and filled, I'm afraid you probably won't have a come-back to GemsTV. Disclosures are not mandatory in the UK (best practice, yes). If you have a loupe, you may be able to see evidence of laser drilling - if you're not confident in identifying what you're seeing an appraiser from Safeguard would be able to help (and they do roadshows all over the country).

I really think it's unlikely however but stranger things have happened .................
 
I don't know if this helps but this is what a laser drill hole will look like. If you get a loupe and examine your stone from the side and move it around slowly, you should be able to see it. Typically they will be very straight lines,,
 
Thanks Meeshoo, I will contact the BAO and AGL and let you know how I get on!
Also, thank you for the picture, I will buy a loupe and have a good look as well.
 
I looked at a couple of my PTs under intense magnification last night and wanted to show you some photos. There's nothing alarming if you see inclusions like these.
 

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