Basso

[madge65]

Killing is't cruel? Killing done correctly? I understand there's a definition of "cruel" but I can write my own one as someone did before me.
Killing shouldn't happen full stop.

I appreciate your sentiment , but surely you wouldnt allow a cow with a broken leg to suffer because killing it is cruel ,

 

[Marina]

I appreciate your sentiment , but surely you wouldnt allow a cow with a broken leg to suffer because killing it is cruel ,

I would think that a Vet could help, but I wouldn't eat that poor cow.
There are 3 legged pets dogs and cats as well - what's different, it's someone's life.
We don't kill people with broken legs, that would be cruel so why not spare animals.

 

[madge65]

I don't know, I would think that a Vet could help, but I wouldn't eat that poor cow.

Well i have never seen a cow with its leg in plaster , a beast that size would be killed , it would be near impossible to do anything else other than kill it , if you really want to understand heartbreaking & devastating, look back at the images of burning pyers of cattle that had to be killed on farms in the uk during the foot & mouth outbreak

I live next to a cattle farm & the smell of burning flesh will haunt me till the day i die , totally soul destroying

 

[Marina]

Yes, I understand this, and am very sorry you had to witness this Madge, but we created problem for ourselves by breeding so many animals.

 

[Tinkerbelle]

I am sorry to say that a cow with a broken is highly likely to be out to sleep but they can be put in plaster it's just unlikely to make financial sense as the treatment will cost more than the animal is worth.

 

[Marina]

I am sorry to say that a cow with a broken is highly likely to be out to sleep but they can be put in plaster it's just unlikely to make financial sense as the treatment will cost more than the animal is worth.

But a horse would be put in plaster, it's just unfortunate that some animals are bred for meat.

 

[Tinkerbelle]

A horse often comes with an emotional attachment. A cow doesn't. But a racehorse with a broken leg will most likely be put to sleep. That often happens there and then. Their bones don't break in the same way as a human bone would. A "pet" horse might be different but its still a hellishly expensive option.

 

[madge65]

Yes, I understand this, and am very sorry you had to witness this Madge, but we created problem for ourselves by breeding so many animals.

I agree that there are to many companion animals bred , you only have to look in any animal rescue shelter , but cattle , sheep etc is a slightly different thing , there bred purely for the food chain , so not distend to live the same length of time as your average cat or dog

man domesticated animals for lots of reasons , not just companionship , milk & meat being the most , dogs were domesticated as a working tool in the first place , ferrets another example of enabling monks to catch rabbits an excellent low fat meat ..

I spend a lot of time at the farm next door & the farmer is good at what he does , they hand rear lambs each year & they do live a very life on the farm here ,

farms arnt all bad places , & organisations like PETA try to brainwash people with shocking images of the worst case scenario.. i have attached a few pics of some of the stock I have photographed at the farm , these are the kinds of images that Anti meat organisation hate people seeing , because there not hyped up propaganda



these house martins nest on the farm, so if they shut down due to pressure from anti meat groups then we loose a wonderful place & a habbitat for wild life .. lands usually re developed & houses built destroying the habbitat of many species

Max the farm collie


Cheeky fox on farmland


Max in the yard


short legged dexter beef cattle


the bottom line for me is if farms shut down then developers buy the land & re develop it ... i would be devastated to loose the countryside I live in not for me but for the many species that would have no place to live simple as that

Alfie stabled on farm land..lol

 

[Vienna]

There are alway people who ill treat animals whether farm animals or domestic animals and there are always people who ill treat children, old folks or those with learning difficulties or in care. Human beings can be kind but they can also be cruel but on the whole we care for our animals/old people/children/ handicapped much better than many other countries. Everything neeeds to be put into proportion. We often only see or hear of worst case scenario and people tout worst case scenarios, never the good work that most farmers and animal owners or breeders do.

 

[norfolk dumpling]

At the moment we have 3 cows 4 calfs and 4 pigs. The cows are used for breeding and when the calves are old enough they will be used for breeding as well. Their offspring will go to market for the food chain. The pigs will be slaughtered by professionals in the abortoir and will also go into the food chain. These are not domestic animals and are bread to be used. Can anyone tell me seriously what should happen to cattle/sheep/pigs etc if they are not used for food. My cattle and pigs live in luxery.. The pigs cost £40 a week to feed - if we had to buy hay and straw (we grow our own) it would cost approx £30 a week so these animals have to earn their keep. Yes they are cute when they are young but they grow into very large and sometimes aggressive animals. I know that my animals are reared in the best possible conditions. I go and feed and water them everyday and while they are alive they are very happy. But as I have said they are very expensive to keep and take up a lot of time.

 

[Estella]

Just to add my two penn'orth, I am against wearing animal fur and will not watch QVC or go on their website on any day when Dennis Basso is on. I've complained to QVC about them selling his products when he is a fur trader and got the usual flannel response. I actually stopped eating meat about 3 years ago and can honestly say I've noticed no decline in my health or energy levels. I feel just the same, despite people telling me I NEED meat for protein and that I will make myself ill. These comments frequently come from people who are overweight and have various health ailments, but I just smile politely and let them say their piece.
Anyway, I'm going off on a tangent here, but just wanted to say that in my opinion, there is a big difference between killing an animal for meat, and killing it to wear it. Although, I'd ask people who eat meat but oppose fur, to make informed choices about where they purchase their meat to ensure the highest welfare standards for the animal. It was when I forced myself to think about the whole process of breeding and slaughtering that I decided I didn't want to eat meat anymore.
For those who would maybe like to eat a little less meat, but are worried about getting enough protein, you CAN get all the protein you need by eating more things like baked beans, brown rice, nuts etc. All these celebrity chefs these days say that we should eat less meat, but when we do, make it the best quality we can afford.
PS: even if Basso wasn't a fur trader, I still couldn't watch his shows. I find him creepy and repellant. I know that many long-time forum members are probably bored of the same old arguments when Basso appears, but there will be many new lurkers all the time and some of them may not know the 'other side' of his business. I know I didn't before finding this forum, and I am grateful that I found out because QVC sure as hell would never have told me!

 

[Loveinamist]

Interesting read from Wiki:



Dennis Basso (born February 25, 1954 ) is an American fashion designer and one of America's premier couture fur designers. He started his business in 1983.


Dennis attended Catholic University of America in Washington, D.C. and the Fashion Institute of Technology in New York.
[edit]Career

In 1983, Dennis Basso began selling a line of pelts out of the trunk of a rented Town Car. Since then, he has transformed his business into a multinational luxury fur brand. In 2002, he was inducted into the CFDA (Council of Fashion Designers of America). Five years later, Dennis joined the lineup at Mercedes-Benz Fashion Week in Bryant Park, New York and introduced an expanded line of ready-to-wear separates and dresses.
At QVC, Dennis Basso has created a major market in faux fur, offering affordable and sophisticated outerwear and accessories. In 2009, he received the QVC Ambassador Award.
[edit]Humanitarian Work

He sits on the boards of the Children’s Hearing Institute and the Boy’s Towns of Italy Foundation. Supporter of the American Cancer Society, The G&P Foundation for Cancer Research, Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, New Yorkers for Children, and the Alzheimer’s Association, which gave him the Humanitarian man of the Year Award in 2005.
[edit]References

 

[janie]

Just to add my two penn'orth, I am against wearing animal fur and will not watch QVC or go on their website on any day when Dennis Basso is on. I've complained to QVC about them selling his products when he is a fur trader and got the usual flannel response. I actually stopped eating meat about 3 years ago and can honestly say I've noticed no decline in my health or energy levels. I feel just the same, despite people telling me I NEED meat for protein and that I will make myself ill. These comments frequently come from people who are overweight and have various health ailments, but I just smile politely and let them say their piece.
Anyway, I'm going off on a tangent here, but just wanted to say that in my opinion, there is a big difference between killing an animal for meat, and killing it to wear it. Although, I'd ask people who eat meat but oppose fur, to make informed choices about where they purchase their meat to ensure the highest welfare standards for the animal. It was when I forced myself to think about the whole process of breeding and slaughtering that I decided I didn't want to eat meat anymore.
For those who would maybe like to eat a little less meat, but are worried about getting enough protein, you CAN get all the protein you need by eating more things like baked beans, brown rice, nuts etc. All these celebrity chefs these days say that we should eat less meat, but when we do, make it the best quality we can afford.
PS: even if Basso wasn't a fur trader, I still couldn't watch his shows. I find him creepy and repellant. I know that many long-time forum members are probably bored of the same old arguments when Basso appears, but there will be many new lurkers all the time and some of them may not know the 'other side' of his business. I know I didn't before finding this forum, and I am grateful that I found out because QVC sure as hell would never have told me!

i agree with everything you say. don't want to get in an argument, just my opinion. (interestingly most basso threads are very anti-fur trade). it's simple to eat a well balanced healthy diet as a veggie.

the thing that struck me about your post was the bit i've highlighted. i've been a veggie for 25 years but it's my choice, i don't care what other people eat, that's their choice. i also never expect anything different to be supplied/made for me. if i was invited somewhere for xmas dinner for example, i just say give me a couple extra spuds and i'll be fine. however, many a meal has been ruined by the meat eaters challenging me and demanding to know why i think being a veggie is right, telling me about the law of the jungle etc. it's never veggies who get on their soapbox and dictate. it's always the other way round, as though they do actually have doubts themselves.

 

[Loveinamist]

Well said janie. My DD is vegan and she gets questioned all the time about "what do you actually live on?" She never preaches or is on a crusade, she is just vegan, her choice and she gets tired of peoples ignorance or "I could never be a vegan!" Well she is not asking them to be, she just wants her dinner in peace!

 

[DebraJane]

I have experienced exactly the same as you Janie although I've only been a veggie for a mere 23 years. I have never been able to work out why some feel the need to make you justify the absence of meat meat/products from your life. Mind you I have heard similar disbelief and challenge to others who don't drink alcohol.

 

[Jabbathehut]

Well OH and I are not long back from NYC where it was bitterly cold, and it must be said that wearing fur is very acceptable there.

I don't have any aversion to wearing fur ,and ,in the late 70s early 80s I ,like many of my friends owned and wore several coney fur box jackets ,which were all the rage at the time.

I don't currently own any furs, but have several faux furs which I adore.

My grandmother who is 97 , with all her facilities, and lives alone, in her hey day owned several full length and 3/4 length minks, in fact I'm quite tempted to ask if she still has them.

I am an animal lover ,but ,don't believe that anyone should be judged or berated for exercising their free will over whether or not they chose to wear fur or leather.

 

[Weathergirl]

The food chain argument carries more weight in a society where they really have no choice but to hunt, kill, skin, eat and wear an animal in order to survive But WE don't. We have free will, and as I said it depends where you draw the line. I said where I draw mine, and I live in a modern, civilised society with genuine choice. So no, I don't think I need to get real, sadly. I know it won't change, and I can't expect people to live by my standards. I accept that but I don't have to like it or respect those people.

 

[Tilley]

At last a sensible comment. I eat meat but spend more money buying organic products and buying from butchers who know where their meat is from, how it was reared, how it was killed etc. As you say it is totally wrong for an animal to be killed just so somebody can wear its fur. Dennis Basso and his partner were on a programme about Claridges recently. He apparently stays there whenever he is in London.

 

[Nikki]

At last a sensible comment. I eat meat but spend more money buying organic products and buying from butchers who know where their meat is from, how it was reared, how it was killed etc. As you say it is totally wrong for an animal to be killed just so somebody can wear its fur. Dennis Basso and his partner were on a programme about Claridges recently. He apparently stays there whenever he is in London.

Buying your meat with consideration and compassion for the animal is a very good point. Not only is it ethical it must be better for you. Look at how those battery chickens are pumped up with water adding chemicals, YUK! Apart from the moral aspect I couldn't bear to be the recipient of that suffering for a sunday roast or a curry! I was veggie for 20 + years. I eat free fange naturally reared & fed chicken & pork now. I think it's the least I can do as a human who can make that choice. The animals whose joints are neatly wrapped up with no info about how they were reared or what they were reared on personally makes me shudder. The people responsible couldn't give a stuff what the long term effects are to the people who eat it or what chemicals are in the animal being consumed.

 

[norfolk dumpling]

As I have said before it is all about good animal husbandry. Most other farmers that I know realise that good stock comes from good feeding. I still hav'nt had an answer to my asking what would happen to all the farm animals if they don't go into the food chain. Nobody could afford to feed them to keep as pets. DEFRA have a lot of rules and regs that you must stick to