alisons youngs little white lies

[Rentochops]

I am 35 and have chosen not to have children, not to protect my career, figure or home, just because I haven't felt the urge (not sure if that's the correct word) to have them. I don't feel that I should have children just because I should but because I can't imagine my life without them, which at the moment I don't.

I don't, however, think that makes me self absorbed or selfish. I have 2 neices who I love to bits and stay with me regularly.

Just because some women choose not to have children they are not all self absorbed.

Well said RFE, I have seen very self absorbed and selfish people who are Mothers too - what is worse?

By the way some people just can't afford to have kids; as for the figure mine can't get much worse!LOL

 

[PAW]

I don't need to calm down. There are countless reasons why every Woman does not have Children, and I am one of them, and not through choice.....

To make a sweeping statement like you have Pinkearplugs is out of order on all levels and to all Women, like Fraggle has said, "Think before you Post".

 

[Miss Kitty]

I think you should all calm down and give pinkearplugs a chance. She was referring to women who have CHOSEN not to have children for fear of ruining their lives, careers, figures and homes. I know a few of those and they ARE prime cows! Her remark had absolutely nothing to do with the unfortunate ones who can't have children for whatever reason.

I am calm jellytot - just expressing my opinion on a rather inflammatory remark. And unless you are pinkearplugs, I think we should leave it to the lady herself to explain what she meant.

If she wants to, of course.

 

[jellytot]

I am calm jellytot - just expressing my opinion on a rather inflammatory remark. And unless you are pinkearplugs, I think we should leave it to the lady herself to explain what she meant.

If she wants to, of course.

I don't think there is anything wrong with standing up for someone in their absence, and I honestly do not think pinkearplugs meant to offend anyone. I took it that she was referring to a very specific type of woman, which none of the lovely ladies on this forum even remotely resemble. She could have worded it better, but there was no malice in her remark. I am childless too, by the way, and not through choice.

I think that just as mothers can act precious when it comes to having time off at work and doing overtime, childless women can also act precious about their lack of children. It hurts me not to have children but for the most part I just try and get on with it.

 

[Houserabbit]

I wonder how many more people who have read it have been upset by it

One more here.

In my experience it is the lucky women who do have children who can show self-absorption - discussing the woes of childcare options and school fees ad nauseam in front of their silent, childless, unhappy friends...

 

[AngelGab]

.....this topic has opened my eyes.....I am lucky enough to have children (but do understand the pain of those who do not, as my sister has been trying for years unsuccessfully)....I must be naive as I honestly never considered the hurt I might be causing others by moaning about my kids ......this thread has taught me a lesson

 

[Just Beauty Direct]

I think you should all calm down and give pinkearplugs a chance. She was referring to women who have CHOSEN not to have children for fear of ruining their lives, careers, figures and homes. I know a few of those and they ARE prime cows! Her remark had absolutely nothing to do with the unfortunate ones who can't have children for whatever reason.

Pinkearplugs post was an indefensible comment - as others have said.

An utter generalisation, which was incredibly hurtful to many and highly offensive.

It was sexist and made huge assumptions about things that should not be assumed.

I also know incredibly pushy mothers who are so competitive for their little ego extensions to do well that they think and talk of nothing else, and are in the process of wrecking their kiddy's childhood. I don't assume that all mothers are like that nor that they reflect the majority ffs.

How the hell do you know that is the true reason for people not having children - and even if it is, what right have you to say that is wrong?

 

[Lady Darls]

.....this topic has opened my eyes.....I am lucky enough to have children (but do understand the pain of those who do not, as my sister has been trying for years unsuccessfully)....I must be naive as I honestly never considered the hurt I might be causing others by moaning about my kids ......this thread has taught me a lesson

me as well Angel

 

[Just Beauty Direct]

.....this topic has opened my eyes.....I am lucky enough to have children (but do understand the pain of those who do not, as my sister has been trying for years unsuccessfully)....I must be naive as I honestly never considered the hurt I might be causing others by moaning about my kids ......this thread has taught me a lesson

AG and Darls, please don't worry about that. Moaning about kids is not offensive (neither is the pride at their achievement), I love Darls stories about Cam the little man and it is human nature to despair about them when they go off the rails.

Letting off steam on this forum is part of what it is about, as well as sharing the joys - making hurtful generalisations about people based on assumption is not.

 

[Starlight]

Come on folks, lighten up

Does anyone seriously think that pinkearplugs meant to offend anyone on this forum?

She obviously just made a mistake by saying that ''AY is like most childless women of her age. Very self absorbed" Maybe, some would have been more appropriate.

Of course many women who are childless appear to be self-absorbed - they have usually worked for a long time and have lots of disposable income to spend so indulge themselves (I would myself!) but I have NEVER known a woman who goes around saying 'uugh babies are horrible' and 'you must be mad getting pregnant, it'll wreck your body' like Alison Young does. She's one on her own

We all know what pinkearplugs was trying to say, let's not be so touchy! :star:

 

[AngelGab]

I wish I had a Thank You button !

 

[dingledangle]

Back to Alison (Ahem!) I sometimes feel for her, I really do. She has to present the same old products over and over again and that must be so mind-numbingly boring. How much can you say about a moisturiser, after all?

On a different note...... Poor jellytot! I suspect you were only trying to help, and good on you for that! ROFLMAO.

 

[LADY TIA]

Come on folks, lighten up

Does anyone seriously think that pinkearplugs meant to offend anyone on this forum?

She obviously just made a mistake by saying that ''AY is like most childless women of her age. Very self absorbed" Maybe, some would have been more appropriate.

Of course many women who are childless appear to be self-absorbed - they have usually worked for a long time and have lots of disposable income to spend so indulge themselves (I would myself!) but I have NEVER known a woman who goes around saying 'uugh babies are horrible' and 'you must be mad getting pregnant, it'll wreck your body' like Alison Young does. She's one on her own

We all know what pinkearplugs was trying to say, let's not be so touchy! :star:

I'm afraid I didn't analyse pinearplugs' post and think about what she was trying to say but rather took it at face value. It was offensive. I think it is unfair to then be told I (and others) are being "touchy". I think the topic goes deeper than that. But I agree Ms Young is one on her own almost - I know of couple of people who dislike babies and children almost as much.

 

[Fraggle]

I'm sure Pinkearplugs (great name!) wasn't trying to offend but nevertheless we are judged on actions not intentions and what was posted was extremely hurtful.

I realise others might see it as 'touchy' but you need to realise that for a lot of women who can't conceive, including me, the pain of that is something very real, something we carry round with us every day: every day when we pretend that it doesn't matter, every time we bounce our friends children on our knees and plaster a smile on our faces, every time the phone rings and it's a friend having a baby, every time a christening/baptism invitation drops on the mat.

Until you have experienced that then you can't appreciate how hurtful remarks like the one that was made are.

I do accept though that it's time to move past this and back onto topic.

 

[Elise]

I think the assumption that childless women are automatically swimming in disposable income is a very foolish one.

Many women without children are also single - and thus have only a single household income. They receive no government top ups or benefits of any sort and can thus be financially quite vulnerable.

Anyone who wants children and can't have them or hasn't met the right person with which to start a family has the double edged sword of not only having to pay for other peoples kids through taxes, but then having to listen to how selfish/career minded/feminist etc they are for not having their own!

 

[Lady Darls]

who IS Alison Young? What does she look like? I don't even know who you're all on about

 

[Starlight]

I think the assumption that childless women are automatically swimming in disposable income is a very foolish one.

Oh here we go again, I said 'many' childless women have a lot of disposable income, not ALL women :embarassed:

I am truly sorry if I have offended anyone with my last few posts and would warn anyone to be extremely careful in choosing their words before they post. I still think that some people are a tad over-sensitive and are ready to jump on people who unwittingly offend them though usually a throwaway remark. I have been accused myself of being touchy many times in the recent past because I was going through a personal trauma, but soon came to realise that people weren't trying to hurt me at all, and that I was in fact hurting them by accusing them of being nasty to me when they were not at all! I was just trying to get this across to people who had been offended by pinkearplug's remarks.

Sorry for rambling on in this my last post, definitely a lurker not a poster from now on!

Great post Lady Darls! :LS:

 

[Calvin]

Oh here we go again, I said 'many' childless women have a lot of disposable income, not ALL women :embarassed:

I am truly sorry if I have offended anyone with my last few posts and would warn anyone to be extremely careful in choosing their words before they post. I still think that some people are a tad over-sensitive and are ready to jump on people who unwittingly offend them though usually a throwaway remark. I have been accused myself of being touchy many times in the recent past because I was going through a personal trauma, but soon came to realise that people weren't trying to hurt me at all, and that I was in fact hurting them by accusing them of being nasty to me when they were not at all! I was just trying to get this across to people who had been offended by pinkearplug's remarks.

Sorry for rambling on in this my last post, definitely a lurker not a poster from now on!
Great post Lady Darls! :LS:

It's safer. . I advocate it wholeheartedly, but this may well be my first and my last post.

 

[dingledangle]

Awwww, I think it is so sad that people feel it is not 'safe' to post. That's not what forums are about

 

[Pinkpussycat]

In my experience it is the lucky women who do have children who can show self-absorption - discussing the woes of childcare options and school fees ad nauseam in front of their silent, childless, unhappy friends...

Totally agree with this statement........they go on.....and on...and on ad infinitum all trying to outdo each other with stories about how clever, funny, infuriating, loving, cheeky etc their sprogs are ...........:YAWN:

I also know incredibly pushy mothers who are so competitive for their little ego extensions to do well that they think and talk of nothing else,

We've all come across them haven't we??

I think the assumption that childless women are automatically swimming in disposable income is a very foolish one.

Many women without children are also single - and thus have only a single household income. They receive no government top ups or benefits of any sort and can thus be financially quite vulnerable.

......has the double edged sword of not only having to pay for other peoples kids through taxes, but then having to listen to how selfish/career minded/feminist etc they are for not having their own!

I'm childless by choice and yes I'll admit to not liking them much - shock horror!! :YIKES: I have long been miffed the way single childless people in this country are often villified for not wanting kids and are then financially penalised for making that choice. IMO we should receive beneficial tax incentives for not being a constant drain on the country's welfare, education and NHS resources but will that ever happen?? No of course not but that's for another thread and not for discussion here. PC:

Fear not Starlight & Calvin.....I'm never afraid to post.