Filled or composite Ruby

[Glitzy]

Hi, wonder if anyone can answer this for me. I have sent an email to Gems on Sunday, but so far have not had a reply.
I saw an auction for a Ruby ring, with a carat weight for the Ruby of over 12ct. It looked a lovely dress ring, and although I was fully aware that a Ruby of that size for a price of £249.00 was not going to be top notch and I was fairly sure it would be filled as that is what it says on the treatments on the web page (This was not mentioned in the auction). I was ok with that for large Ruby as a dress ring.
I ordered a size 7, but when it arrived obviously a mistake had been made and it was a size 5. I was going to return it for a 7, but looked up the number on the internet, and it said none available. So I thought I would get it re-sized rather than return it.
I decided to take it to my own little Jewellers to have it sized rather than send it away to The Gems re-sizing service. My Jeweller has done many repairs etc for me in the past. Any repairs that he does, he always cleans the jewellery as part of the service. He phoned me to ask if I knew that the Ruby was filled, as when he cleaned it the Ruby became crazed, and white lines appeared. I said I thought it would be filled. He said these stones are a pain as often you can't tell they are filled before hand. ( I had just put it in for sizing as a Ruby ring.)
He said they are often pieces of low quality corundum that are fused together with glass, and can contain more glass than Ruby:wonder: He said they are often called composite stones, and told me to read up about it on the internet.
I had assumed that filled meant the same as the process used for an Emerald, that it is a genuine stone that has the fractures filled with something.
I looked on the internet and found articles about composite stones that said often they are made up of many non gem quality stones sometimes no bigger than grit that are fused together with glass!!!! And often more glass than stone.
I believed my Ruby was a 12ct Ruby, not of top quality becase it had fractures in it that had merely been filled with glass in the cracks. I did not think it could be a stone made up of lots of little bits. :doh:
Does anyone know if these Gems TV Rubies are just filled or are they in fact composite stones which are mainly glass?
My Jeweller polished out the white cracks as much as possible and it is wearable, but obviously it is not as it was. I am unable to return it as I've had it re-sized and cleaned.
I have spent a lot of money with Gems over the last few months, and am happy with my items. However, I am disapointed if this is a large stone made up of lots of little bits and mainly glass, as then £249 is not a bargain and I may as well have bought a glass costume piece.
If you didn't have the internet to check what is said about treatments, you may not even know it is filled, as this was never mentioned in the auction.
I have lots of Jewellery in my collection, from some very expensive pieces bought from individual jewellers and some beautiful Gems TV pieces down to £49.00 rings from Gems, which I enjoy wearing and take them for what they are.
I am aware of treatments and if I feel that for what I am paying it is acceptable then I'm ok with that. But, I have to say on this occasion I feel that if it is mainly glass,and not just cracks filled then I'm a little miffed, as this would not be a Ruby of 12ct.
Sorry for the epic post.

 

[Rocchic]

Glitzy, I would not even begin to advise you on the stone as I am not a fan of rubies and no little about filling etc - I know there are some very knowledgable peeps on here who will answer your question. However I do know that if an item is mis sold and / or not fit for purpose or sold with misleading information that means if you had that information you would not have bought it - you only found out this info when you had it resized/cleaned - therefore it is not fit for purpose, not sold as seen, and not sold with accurate details - therefore under consumer law you have every right to return it.

I have some lovely jewellery from Rocks and some really excellent gold deals from the gems clearance - carefully selected and well under £249 although I dare not add up all the 'under' over the last couple of years - just my opinion but if I were to pay £249 for a ruby ring I would not expect glass - I would email Steve Bennett direct if it were me.

Hope you post the outcome as interested to know and hope its to your satisfaction

 

[Sacha]

Treated rubies

Hi Glitzy, sorry to hear of your problem and disappointment with the quality of your Ruby ring. I agree with Rocchic
that an email to Steve Bennett directly is the best course of action since you haven't received a reply to Sunday's email.

I was just looking on the internet and there are a number of articles about fracture / fissure filled rubies and most of the larger carat weight ones are treated in this way. I also understood many rubies to be lead filled as non treated ones are rare and very expensive.

Just out of interest what is the origin of your ruby....Thailand / Madagascar etc? Am also interested to hear that the outcome will be to your complete and utter satisfaction.

 

[Sacha]

Pao-Mai rubies

Just having another browse on t'internet and I came across this article by Ted Themelis. Its clearly written and the sections on the left panel, if you are interested, give more info on gem treating practices that are so often undisclosed...even to original gembuyers!

 

[Pinkpussycat]

Imho a large filled ruby fior the price you paid would be acceptable as long as you were made aware of the treatment, but a ruby made up of tiny gem particles and mainly glass is definately not!! If you wanted a glass ring you can pick them up on any market stall but this isn't what I expect any jewellery channel to be selling. Please let us know what Steve Bennet has to say about this Glitzy.

 

[Glitzy]

Thanks for your replies. How do I email Steve direct?
The Ruby is from Thailand. I agree Pink pussycat, I am more than happy with the price I paid for a large Ruby if just the cracks are filled, but not so if it is made of lots of little bits, and mainly glass. I should have mentioned to the jeweller that I thought it wold be filled.
As I have said I have been very happy with all of my other purchases from Gems for the prices I have paid, and if it is confirmed that this is a filled large Ruby, and not a composite stone, I wii be satisfied with this purchase too.

 

[Sazza]

Thanks for your replies. How do I email Steve direct?
The Ruby is from Thailand. I agree Pink pussycat, I am more than happy with the price I paid for a large Ruby if just the cracks are filled, but not so if it is made of lots of little bits, and mainly glass. I should have mentioned to the jeweller that I thought it wold be filled.
As I have said I have been very happy with all of my other purchases from Gems for the prices I have paid, and if it is confirmed that this is a filled large Ruby, and not a composite stone, I wii be satisfied with this purchase too.

Steve's e-mail address is [email protected]

 

[Meeshoo]

First of all, I'm sorry that you've found out the hard way about enhancements. It's horrible when you buy something only to find out that it's not quite what you thought. Here's my take on it and I'm looking at this from a consumer's point of view:

Filled Rubies are sometimes called "composites". This is a bit misleading because composites can mean lots of bits of Rubies glued together to make one big one. I doubt very much this is the case. A highly filled Ruby can be called a composite and have a high proportion of filling but typically there will still be more Ruby than lead/glass. This is different to Emeralds where there are now (rarely) composites where bits are glued together. I doubt if GemsTV are selling this type of Ruby but it's worth asking the question.

A ruby of 12ct that had had no treatment would be worth a fortune. I mean a serious fortune. So this gives you a starting point to realise that all may not be what it seems with your Ruby. However, if you're new to jewellery, you have no real comparison (and this would apply to a good proportion of the buying public).

To give you an idea, for £249, as you summised, you wouldn't get a heated or unheated Ruby of 12ct. In fact, you wouldn't even get a 1ct unheated/heated Ruby for that price. In fact, you'd struggle to get half a carat. So that gives you a benchmark.

Unfortunately fracture filled rubies are now incredibly common. They do not really have a value. The value for your piece is in the cost of the treatment and the gold. The Ruby (I'm sorry to say) is not worth hardly anything. The reason for this is the type and amount of treatment. However, if you think of this as a large pretty costume piece then the fact that it's a ruby set into gold, makes it worth the £249 but akin to costume jewellery.

There are several different ways of filling rubies. One is to fill the cracks with lead or glass and basically, there are degrees of filling. In a 12ct Ruby my suspicion is that it would be highly filled (and that's backed up by the exceptionally low selling price).

I suspect that your jeweller put the Ruby in an acid bath which eroded the filling. A good jeweller SHOULD know - especially with a Ruby of that size - that there was a possibility of filling and therefore should NEVER had subjected the Ruby to anything that would have eroded the filling - which is clearly what has happened here. However, hindsight is wonderful but it's a question that if I were a jeweller I would certainly ask if being faced with a 12ct Ruby. I would always start from the point of view that treatments had been applied.

As for polishing it out? I'd like to know how he's done that because these fractures are normally tiny weenie fractures/fissures throughout the stone and there's no way you can polish them out. So that you understand this, think about a vein running down inside your leg, how would you get inside each and every tiny vein to polish them out? You can't. You can re-fill (which a normal jeweller wouldn't have the tools to do) or you just polish the external bits of the stone which will make it look better HOWEVER by removing the filling, he's also potentially affected the integrity of the stone.

As for whether filling should be disclosed at the point of sale? GemsTV has a comprehensive enhancement disclosure page and the bit about Rubies is attached below. This is what will be relied on I'm afraid. Is that good enough? No I don't think it is but under our current law it is. My personal opinion is that at the point of sale (ie. when advertising on the telly/internet) there should be a clear statement that "this is a fracture/fissure filled Ruby" or whatever treatment has been applied. TJC do exactly this so the buyer cannot say that he hasn't been told. Whether he/she understands is another matter altogether. I'm afraid that the onus is on the buyer to either ask questions during the returns period. However, what I am perpexled about is the first attachment below where GemsTV clearly state that "at the point of sale disclosures are made". Well, that would be true if it was stated on the telly or in the title or on any card that came with the piece. If not, then I feel you should ask GemsTV to show you where it has stated that at the point of sale.

Is this Ruby fit for purpose? Well yes it is. It's a fracture filled Ruby. At the end of the day, it has to be treated with care and certain things can't be done to it (to avoid exactly what's happened to your poor stone).

I'm sorry that you're in this position and I hope you get a resolution.

 

[Meeshoo]

Some photos :down:

 

[Glitzy]

Thank you so much to both Sazza for Steve's email address, and to Meeshoo for such a fantastic reply. Thank you so much for taking the time and trouble to wrtite all that. I have now received an email from the Rocks help team, saying they would pass on my concerns to their suppliers, but have assured me that they only use genuine stones and not fakes or replicas. They also said that it states on the back of the invoice, that one should always assume a stone may have been enhanced.
As you have said Meeshoo, I am not silly enough to think a 12ct ruby was going to be of any serious quality, and did know it would be filled, but I wasn't aware that one stone could be made up of lots of small ones.
As you feel that this is probably not the case, I think I shall just leave it at that and not bother contacting Steve. I shall just accept my ring for what it is.
I think there are other Gem stones I would have rather spent out on in hindsight, but live and learn.
By the way Meeshoo I may have misled you when I said the jeweller said he had polished out the fractures. What I meant was, he polished the stone, and it looks ok, but close up and with a loupe I can see White veins running through it.
Thank you so much for everyone's help.

 

[stevebennett]

Hi Glitzy

hope you are well. At Gems TV and Rocks TV we do sell glass filled Ruby, as well as heat treated and completely natural Ruby. We do not however sell reconstituted Ruby. Whilst this method is fine for some gems such as shell pearls, it is not something we do with Ruby.

If you take a look at our websites, Gems TV, Rocks.TV and Colouredrocks.com, we now have a very comprehensive PDF download for all of the types of treatment that we currently know about. We are also in the process of changing all of our new product descriptions so that they include the applied treatment.

Hope this helps

Kind Regards

Steve

 

[Glitzy]

Thank you very much for taking the time and trouble to reply Steve. It has put my mind at rest that this is not a reconstituted stone, so I am happy with the outcome. :happy: