Cavill&co

[Ostrichkeeper]

The certification doesn't say Paraiba just tourmaline.

 

[Marietta]

Grandidierite is all about the rarity hype. It WAS rare at one time (5th in the rarest gemstones list I believe) - but a new deposit was found around 2017, which has made it far more commonly available. It is no longer anywhere near as rare as it was - but Gemporia still play on the 'top 5 rarest gemstones' line of old that is no longer relevant today.

There are now many more stones that are FAR rarer than Grandiderite - to the point where they're almost impossible to get hold of. Benitoite, Painite, Taaffeite, Jeremejevite, Pezzottaite, 'proper' Bixbite (not the heavily included 'Rhyolite with Bixbite inclusions' that Gemporia were flogging as Bixbite a few years ago, etc to name just a few.

If they had brought Grandidierite to air ten years ago, then yes, it would have been a really big deal simply because of it's rarity - but these days? Meh, it's just another murky greenish-blue heavily included stone that is available in mass quantities.

As for Paraiba - just to be clear, heat treatment doesn't mean that its not a 'real' Paraiba. Heat treatment is probably the most acceptable treatment out there. Unlike other treatments, it doesn't add anything artificial to the stone. Heating simply helps to make a stone clearer by dissolving some inclusions and boosting its colour slightly in the process. A stone is heated naturally underground anyway - so heating simply extends a treatment that would have happened naturally anyway underground.

What makes a Paraiba a 'true' Paraiba is two things:

a) Copper content
b) A specific colour.

To be called a Paraiba Tourmaline, the stone MUST contain copper - and it MUST fall within a specific shade of bluish-green or greenish-blue.

If it is Paraiba coloured but does not contain copper, then it is simply Tourmaline. Likewise, if it contains copper but is too light in colour or too dark in colour, then it is also not a Paraiba Tourmaline.

So long as it meets those criteria, then it's a 'True' Paraiba whether its heated or not.

An example of natural underground heating resulting in colour change is Ametrine. It starts off as Citrine and becomes Amethyst.

 

[Carsc]

Thanks for the explanation of paraiba, does that mean the coloured tourmalines, (such as pink) from Caville and co are not true paraiba ? If so why are they allowed to call them that ?

 

[Ostrichkeeper]

Thanks for the explanation of paraiba, does that mean the coloured tourmalines, (such as pink) from Caville and co are not true paraiba ? If so why are they allowed to call them that ?

I watched some of last night’s program but got fed up with Toby calling ALL of them Paraiba because it only described them as Tourmaline on the certification of the ones shown.So yes, how could they all be called Paraiba?Toby seems to have decided that they are but I think not.

 

[Carsc]

I bought what was described as ‘1ct Imperial Orange Diamond 9K Gold Ring’ but the authentication card didn’t say ‘orange’. It did say they were not treated. Now I am beginning to wonder if they are Diamonds ?

 

[TheManWithNoName]

Thanks for the explanation of paraiba, does that mean the coloured tourmalines, (such as pink) from Caville and co are not true paraiba ? If so why are they allowed to call them that ?

If they're pink, they're absolutely NOT Paraiba.

Even if a Tourmaline is from Paraiba in Brazil - it still does not make them a Paraiba Tourmaline. It would make them a Tourmaline from Paraiba.

To be a Paraiba Tourmaline, it has to be both copper bearing and of a very specific colour grade within the greenish-blue to blueish-green.

Gemporia REALLY annoy me with their misleading sales spiel. They did a similar thing when they obtained 'Congo Tourmaline' - insinuating that because the Tourmaline came from a copper belt, it could be considered a pink Paraiba or a yellow Paraiba.

No, it couldn't. It would be considered a Cuprian Tourmaline.

Gemporia seem to like implying that if a Tourmaline contains copper, then it is a Paraiba. VERY misleading.

If that was the case, there would be no such thing as Cuprian Tourmaline (Cuprian means 'copper-bearing').

ALWAYS keep this in mind when buying Tourmaline: ALL Paraiba Tourmalines are Cuprian Tourmalines (copper-bearing Tourmaline) - but not all Cuprian Tourmalines are Paraiba Tourmalines (copper bearing Tourmaline of a specific blueish-green to greenish-blue hue)!

 

[TheManWithNoName]

If so why are they allowed to call them that ?

They're not.

The problem is, in order to NOT call them that, it requires people to:

1. Continually report these misleading comments to the Advertising Standards Authority

and then:

2. The Advertising Standards Authority to actually take action rather than giving endless amounts of "warnings".

Shopping channels are full of shysters - but because the ASA are so useless at taking actual meaningful action, these channels can continue being shysters with little, if any, punishment.

 

[Carsc]

Thanks man with no name for the helpful explanation of tourmaline. I did send a message in asking who authenticated the tourmalines as Paraiba, needless to say the question was not shown/answered

 

[TheManWithNoName]

Thanks man with no name for the helpful explanation of tourmaline. I did send a message in asking who authenticated the tourmalines as Paraiba, needless to say the question was not shown/answered

I wonder why they didn't respond........

 

[leslie61]

Did anyone see the Cavill & Co diamond shows yesterday? D, flawless diamonds. There was the usual hype about how rare they are and Debbie showed everyone the card she uses that states the diamonds must be cut with these dimensions for the girdle, etc. for her to use them. I thought we must be in for a really good show and then they gave us a preview - but not before Cherry made a big thing about the first 9 pieces going under £2,000. They were, at best, accent stones, in fact one ring had 15pts of diamonds and was just short of £1,500. From what I saw nothing was more than 1/2 carat, very disappointing.

 

[Bunnytown]

Some of it reminded me of Kat Florence designs. As for the coloured stones, did Debbie get them from Don Kogen or do the three of them all have an arrangement/same contacts? The look and designs are all very similar but there are only so many ways to set a stone. But I thought they were "limited and never to be repeated" opportunities. I remember Don saying a few years ago that there wouldn't be any more Kat Flo flawless diamond collections because it was too difficult/expensive to find them. Anyway they keep on coming...

 

[Ostrichkeeper]

I recently looked at Kat Florence's latest collection and it's just dripping with oodles of Flawless diamonds. I doubt that there's a shortage of them somehow. That's their favorite line about the shortage and rarity of everything they're trying to sell to you.And I do think that she buys from Kogen.

Some of it reminded me of Kat Florence designs. As for the coloured stones, did Debbie get them from Don Kogen or do the three of them all have an arrangement/same contacts? The look and designs are all very similar but there are only so many ways to set a stone. But I thought they were "limited and never to be repeated" opportunities. I remember Don saying a few years ago that there wouldn't be any more Kat Flo flawless diamond collections because it was too difficult/expensive to find them. Anyway they keep on coming...

 

[TheManWithNoName]

Diamonds are not rare. They're controlled. Huge difference.

On average, there are 28,000 tonnes (approximately 130 million carats) of Diamonds mined PER YEAR.

If they're so rare, why does almost everyone own one? They're everywhere!

The absolute finest, top top grade Diamonds that only a handful of people in the world can afford - sure, they're rare.

Anything other than those elite grade diamonds is not rare at all. They're not even in the top 100 of rarest stones.

 

[AndyW]

I have some precision cut unheated zircon that are far more beautiful than any over-priced compressed carbon...in my opinion .

And I know that this is unforgivable heresy but, if you want a nice bit of bling that you can wear without worrying too much, a bezel set Moissanite () in a fancy cut set in a nice weight silver ring can be just the ticket (especially since the patent limitations expired and prices crashed). I'll get my coat...

 

[TheManWithNoName]

I'd far rather have Zircon over Diamond to be honest.

Its a much clearer stone, far far cheaper, rarer and, when cut well, can be just as sparkly as as diamond (certainly more sparkly than a heavily included, off-white / greyish diamond that selly-telly channels bung in their jewellery anyway).

As long as its reflected in the price and they don't try to charge the same for Zircon accent stones as they do Diamond accent stones (yes, Gemporia, I'm looking at you again.....), I'm all for Zircon.

 

[iamafterhours]

Grandidierite is all about the rarity hype. It WAS rare at one time (5th in the rarest gemstones list I believe) - but a new deposit was found around 2017, which has made it far more commonly available. It is no longer anywhere near as rare as it was - but Gemporia still play on the 'top 5 rarest gemstones' line of old that is no longer relevant today.

There are now many more stones that are FAR rarer than Grandiderite - to the point where they're almost impossible to get hold of. Benitoite, Painite, Taaffeite, Jeremejevite, Pezzottaite, 'proper' Bixbite (not the heavily included 'Rhyolite with Bixbite inclusions' that Gemporia were flogging as Bixbite a few years ago, etc to name just a few.

If they had brought Grandidierite to air ten years ago, then yes, it would have been a really big deal simply because of it's rarity - but these days? Meh, it's just another murky greenish-blue heavily included stone that is available in mass quantities.

As for Paraiba - just to be clear, heat treatment doesn't mean that its not a 'real' Paraiba. Heat treatment is probably the most acceptable treatment out there. Unlike other treatments, it doesn't add anything artificial to the stone. Heating simply helps to make a stone clearer by dissolving some inclusions and boosting its colour slightly in the process. A stone is heated naturally underground anyway - so heating simply extends a treatment that would have happened naturally anyway underground.

What makes a Paraiba a 'true' Paraiba is two things:

a) Copper content
b) A specific colour.

To be called a Paraiba Tourmaline, the stone MUST contain copper - and it MUST fall within a specific shade of bluish-green or greenish-blue.

If it is Paraiba coloured but does not contain copper, then it is simply Tourmaline. Likewise, if it contains copper but is too light in colour or too dark in colour, then it is also not a Paraiba Tourmaline.

So long as it meets those criteria, then it's a 'True' Paraiba whether its heated or not.

I've always loved grandidierite- the really good material, I think the colour is beautiful. Gemporia have had the whole range from opaque dark cabochons to loriques since the new Madagascar deposit was found.