Anyone watch Eurovision?

[stratobuddy]

I can't access that. I can never remember the password But now you're making me doubt myself, but I'd swear he did. Coz it's bordering horror. About hexes and wax dolls (the video on YouTube).

He did, unless it was for the semis, I remember someone did for one of the performances.

 

[Herring]

And that well-known European country Australia!

I bet someone wanted to invite Austria but made a spelling mistake.

And the other is, I suppose I can understand why Israel are in the competition, as there are a lot of Jewish folk all around Europe, but even then, why is Israel, Cyprus and the aforementioned Australia all in a European event?

Being eligible to compete in Eurovision isn't predicated on whether a country is actually located within Europe.

The contest is for national public-service (though I think a few are now private) broadcasters who are (full, paid) members of the European Broadcasting Union (EBU).

The EBU was created in 1950 - conceived by the BBC at a conference held Torquay hotel, not sure if was a Fawlty one – years before Eurovision. It allowed countries to quickly share news footage, pool (then expensive) technical resources/transmitters, and co-operate when broadcasting live events, like football and Queen Elizabeth II's coronation, etc.

As relations between countries thawed after WWII — one aim of the music contest was to help bring some fun and lightness back to Europe after the previous dark decades – EBU membership expanded, eventually taking in countries beyond European borders since broadcasting things/sharing news footage from Europe to elsewhere and vice-versa became important.

That is how Israel, Australia, Africa (Morocco competed in 1980), Russia, etc came to be members and part of it.

 

[Duke of Cheese]

I’ve watched it since I was a kid growing up in the 1970s. Stark contrast from what it has become to what it was back in those days. Back then, it was essentially a gentle little show, with the contradictory element of not taking itself too seriously, but a tad pompous at the same time. You had the main countries of western Europe, plus Israel competing back then…The UK used to have A Song for Europe build-up show, where a usually well known artist/s (Lulu, The Shadows, ONJ etc..) would sing six possible entries for the public to vote for. Bearing in mind we had a pretty good success rate back then of two or three wins and a number of second place finishes, it worked pretty well.

Nowadays, the show other than name is virtually unrecognisable to those earlier years. The BBC, probably because of the huge gay attachment to the competition (I don’t remember that being the case until the later 1980s/early 1990s), gives the Contest massive coverage these days. Semi-Finals being shown and news reporting in general. It ticks boxes. Big boxes…

This year we had Olly Alexander. Well known, a showman, gay and with an incessantly catchy tune…Sounds perfect for a win in theory. Unfortunately, Eurovision is incredibly gay friendly, but not quite to the levels of a grimy public toilet set for two thirds of the song, with Alexander replicating some very sexual positions with four muscle men in bondage gear you don’t normally find when you go for a pee in the bogs at Tesco, say. It was just too much.. It killed the song stone dead. His poor singing on a night with some very strong vocal performances, also seemed very much responsible for the Big Zero from the public vote. People generally don’t want The Fantasy Channel output with their modern day, family evening extravaganza fix of Euro Oom-Pah-Pah.. Now, the Swiss entry with a smiling, innocent looking fellow in a skirt and white tights, was much more like what is required…Quaintly Camp and Catchy…Not Sordidly Sexual and Sung Badly…

Many say we could send The Beatles (if we could) and still lose because everybody ‘hates’ us in Europe and er…Australia… But send an extremely personable, smiling guy (Sam Ryan) singing a great song, brilliantly, and not doing it from a mock-up of the gents in Earls Court Tube…and the UK can still win, or nearly so…

 

[merryone]

I’ve watched it since I was a kid growing up in the 1970s. Stark contrast from what it has become to what it was back in those days. Back then, it was essentially a gentle little show, with the contradictory element of not taking itself too seriously, but a tad pompous at the same time. You had the main countries of western Europe, plus Israel competing back then…The UK used to have A Song for Europe build-up show, where a usually well known artist/s (Lulu, The Shadows, ONJ etc..) would sing six possible entries for the public to vote for. Bearing in mind we had a pretty good success rate back then of two or three wins and a number of second place finishes, it worked pretty well.

Nowadays, the show other than name is virtually unrecognisable to those earlier years. The BBC, probably because of the huge gay attachment to the competition (I don’t remember that being the case until the later 1980s/early 1990s), gives the Contest massive coverage these days. Semi-Finals being shown and news reporting in general. It ticks boxes. Big boxes…

This year we had Olly Alexander. Well known, a showman, gay and with an incessantly catchy tune…Sounds perfect for a win in theory. Unfortunately, Eurovision is incredibly gay friendly, but not quite to the levels of a grimy public toilet set for two thirds of the song, with Alexander replicating some very sexual positions with four muscle men in bondage gear you don’t normally find when you go for a pee in the bogs at Tesco, say. It was just too much.. It killed the song stone dead. His poor singing on a night with some very strong vocal performances, also seemed very much responsible for the Big Zero from the public vote. People generally don’t want The Fantasy Channel output with their modern day, family evening extravaganza fix of Euro Oom-Pah-Pah.. Now, the Swiss entry with a smiling, innocent looking fellow in a skirt and white tights, was much more like what is required…Quaintly Camp and Catchy…Not Sordidly Sexual and Sung Badly…

Many say we could send The Beatles (if we could) and still lose because everybody ‘hates’ us in Europe and er…Australia… But send an extremely personable, smiling guy (Sam Ryan) singing a great song, brilliantly, and not doing it from a mock-up of the gents in Earls Court Tube…and the UK can still win, or nearly so…

Good to see you back DOC!!! I loved watching in the 70's as a kid. I remember the 1976 contest, I was 12 at the time and that I had a sleep over at my friend's house. Save your kisses for me had been in the charts for a few weeks so we all knew the song like the back of our hand, we did the dance in the school playground and excitedly looked forward to the night. Yes, we had crisps and popcorn and lashings of fizzy drink and were thrilled when our country won! Had we been kids nowadays, we'd probably have been bored stiff and if we weren't sent to bed before it finished we'd have fallen asleep anyway.

 

[ianrobo111]

So massive EV fan here.

Forgetting the stuff around Israel which I don;t want to debate, the quality was very high this year, my top three were

Croatia
Israel
Switzerland

But like last year the real fans favourite was stymied by the Juries, they wanted the winner they wanted so why have fans voting now ?

 

[Duke of Cheese]

France for me. No visual gimmicks. Just a singer singing a great song. Taking me back to the past days of Eurovision in the best way.

 

[Herring]

So massive EV fan here.

Forgetting the stuff around Israel which I don;t want to debate, the quality was very high this year, my top three were

Croatia
Israel
Switzerland

But like last year the real fans favourite was stymied by the Juries, they wanted the winner they wanted so why have fans voting now ?

It's difficult with the voting. For the second year in a row the public winner hasn't won which just seems… wrong?

But on the other hand, the contest brought in the jury split voting to counteract the fact the national public voting was getting far too predictable in the 8/10/12 points (leading to all of the "iT's tOo pOliTicuLL nOw" accusations).

However, given they since rejigged the voting again to speed up the results make it more dramatic, pooling national votes together and announcing them per entry thereby diluting the neighbours-voting-for-neighbours effect, I'd wager there's a case to be made for returning to just the public vote.

Or at the least, they could reduce the split of the jury vote so it counts for less? Idk.

 

[merryone]

It's so difficult with the voting. For the second year in a row the public winner hasn't won which just seems… wrong?

But on the other hand, the contest brought in jury voting to counteract the fact the national public voting was so often predictable in the 8/10/12 - leading to all of the "iT's aLl pOliTicuLL" accusations.

However, given they rejigged the voting again to speed up the results make it more dramatic by pooling national votes together to announce them in one go per entry, which dilutes the neighbours-voting-for-neighbours effect, and introduced the "rest of the world" vote, there's a case to be made for returning to just public voting.

If it wasn't for the jury vote we'd have scored Zilch this year, and whilst I wasn't particularly keen on it and even less so the singer it most certainly wasn't the worst on offer and deserved to get some points. I thought the Ukranian entry was absolutely terrible this year, and there's been a lot said about Olly being pitchy but those two were a lot worse imo and as for the caterwauling Greek entry - WTAF? Yet both of those scored handsomely. Then we find out that the Uk gave top marks to Israel, clearly not because we liked the song better than the rest. I get what you're saying but there's a lot more that's wrong with the contest.

 

[Herring]

Nowadays, the show other than name is virtually unrecognisable to those earlier years. The BBC, probably because of the huge gay attachment to the competition (I don’t remember that being the case until the later 1980s/early 1990s), gives the Contest massive coverage these days. Semi-Finals being shown and news reporting in general. It ticks boxes. Big boxes…

The idea the contest gets "massive coverage" from the BBC simply because it "ticks big boxes" is a bit of a leap .

I'd wager the reason Eurovision gets 'massive coverage' now compared to the past has more to do with the fact the contest itself is significantly bigger (with more money and effort thrown at it) than in the past. It's mainstream, it's a talking point, and it's far more fun than it used to be. It also reaches a demographic other BBC events don't: young people - the license fee remit requires the BBC to cater to them also.

Surely you have noticed the contest stopped being held in TV studios and small concert halls, attended by bored-looking politicians and upperclass people in dinner suits? The contest has grown so big it's now held in sports stadiums and arenas which are filled to the rafters with people who've bought tickets because they want to be there, not because they want to be seen ticking boxes too.

As for the semis - again, less to do with any LGBTQ+ pandering and more to do with getting value for money.

The BBC has shown the Eurovision semis since they were introduced. They were first on BBC Choice, then BBC 3 until that went off air, then BBC 4 until it no longer had a budget for original programming, so now on BBC 2 (resulting in more people becoming aware of them). And they're shown because the BBC has helped pay for them, and bring in above-average slot ratings for whatever channel their own, so… why not?

While the contest hasn't always been the cultural touchstone in the LGBTQ+ community the fact it has become one is a bit of an "and?" - the inference being the BBC shouldn't give coverage to it because gay people like it?

 

[ianrobo111]

and the contention somehow it is only because it is 'gay' it is being shown is pure wrong. I mean look at the winners since 2000 and very few are 'gay winners'.

However last two years it seems a deliberate attempt for juries to nullify the public vote which seems wrong, yes both Kaarjia and Baby I loved and adored and both should have won.

 

[donna255]

Eurovision for years now is loved by the gay community.

Poor Ireland kept winning with Johnny Logan and another man (forget who he was), the country was broke, and it costs millions to host Eurovision. They had to put Dustin the Turkey in to break the curse. Oh, Dustin was a puppet think, The Muppets only Irish who did a tea time show for children. Actually, he was really funny.

 

[PhædrusR]

Sorry I can see we're talking about Olly's song, yep definitely disagree that it was better than Spaceman, but yeah come on tell us what you thought was robbed!!!!

The musical in the intro/intermission performed by the presenters going through the history of Eurovision was one of the best things on the night. Inventive, creative, well written.

Apparently the UK entry was supposed to be a spaceship going through the galaxy. Not a lavatory. No, me neither.

Disagree that the winner was a standout song. Well performed and staged, but not great/memorable, imho.

Ok, I found the song I was thinking of, from Belgium 2003, Sanomi by Urban Trad. It actually came second to Turkey. Not quite as I remember it, but many comments on youtube that it's one of the best songs not to win and many people remember it and search for it and come back to it. It stuck in my memory as tuneful, atonal and layered, with middle eight, switch and crescendo. A nice piece of work. Using a made-up language.
It could do with a 2024 rework with symphonic orchestra, samples, etc.!

Belgium 2003, Sanomi, Urban Trad.

Reminiscent of Adiemus (Karl Jenkins), or similar to Enya or Enigma, etc

Adiemus (similar made-up language)

 

[Duke of Cheese]

The Contest’s huge gay following, I believe, does influence the BBC in how they present it at least - three gay men covering it on the main TV and radio coverage this year, for example. It all depends on how general PC and inclusion agenda driven you believe Auntie or Auntcle or Gender Neutraltie to be these days, and how or if they tailor their news and entertainment output accordingly. Now 20 years ago, even, and certainly beyond, there would by no drag competitions on the main BBC channels and no girl/boy kissing girl/boy type shows. Two men presenting a news show was common place. On Breakfast, nowadays, how often do you see two female news anchors together, but rarely if ever, two men? Coincidence or a broadcasting policy? Nothing wrong whatsoever with predominantly gay men in large numbers attending the Contest and celebrating flamboyantly. It creates a great atmosphere and visually entertaining TV. No problem with that whatsoever, and nor should I have. Also nothing wrong with adjusted pronouns, and a man with a beard in a dress, but referred to as ‘she’ winning the Eurovision Song Contest. These are the times we live in, and in fifty years time, no doubt the society of then will look back at that of today’s as staid and suppressing. It’s a generational thing. Mix in or opt out.

 

[Vienna]

I follow a clothing brand via their facebook page and there are several men who post photos of themselves wearing womens clothes, wigs, makeup etc but their fantasy of being a woman and it is a fantasy because their DNA will always be male, has become our reality. The page admin insist we call them she/her, talk about them as women and discuss their outfits as a woman wearing them ie chat of bust size, hip size etc and anybody deviating from that have their comments removed. I`ve seen them in some horrendous outfits with horrendous wigs and makeup and even when the male genitalia is obvious ie in shorts or trousers, they still fantasise of being called a she. Yep I know some people will strongly disagree with me but there isn`t a cat in hell`s chance that many of these pretend women will ever actually look like one !

 

[Ant7t]

He did, unless it was for the semis, I remember someone did for one of the performances.

I didn't see the semi finals, so it was in the final too, if that be the case.

 

[Ant7t]

I follow a clothing brand via their facebook page and there are several men who post photos of themselves wearing womens clothes, wigs, makeup etc but their fantasy of being a woman and it is a fantasy because their DNA will always be male, has become our reality. The page admin insist we call them she/her, talk about them as women and discuss their outfits as a woman wearing them ie chat of bust size, hip size etc and anybody deviating from that have their comments removed. I`ve seen them in some horrendous outfits with horrendous wigs and makeup and even when the male genitalia is obvious ie in shorts or trousers, they still fantasise of being called a she. Yep I know some people will strongly disagree with me but there isn`t a cat in hell`s chance that many of these pretend women will ever actually look like one !

You'd be surprised (probably) how many men in drag (or the equivalent) look better than when they are out of drag. I know you are not talking 'drag', but two things. Most of the drag queens that don't 'do boobs', but are obviously trying to look like women, I would imagine, just like dressing up, not actually becoming. I knew (and no, it wasn't me ) someone who used to dress up in women's clothes and when I went to their house (they were renting one of my boss's houses) there was a man in a gold sequined dress still wearing his beard. And the chap I knew was married and she knew. Gosh, that was a digression. The other thing being what bust does a 'normal' man (aka not a body builder) have. That is silly, expecting their chests to be measured thus.

 

[donna255]

Back in the 90s, two comedy shows decided to do their own Eurovision songs.

Father Ted, My Little Horse for Ireland

The High Life for Scotland, Biff Baff Boff, I Want To Have It Off.

Sadly, neither made it.

 

[Vienna]

You'd be surprised (probably) how many men in drag (or the equivalent) look better than when they are out of drag. I know you are not talking 'drag', but two things. Most of the drag queens that don't 'do boobs', but are obviously trying to look like women, I would imagine, just like dressing up, not actually becoming. I knew (and no, it wasn't me ) someone who used to dress up in women's clothes and when I went to their house (they were renting one of my boss's houses) there was a man in a gold sequined dress still wearing his beard. And the chap I knew was married and she knew. Gosh, that was a digression. The other thing being what bust does a 'normal' man (aka not a body builder) have. That is silly, expecting their chests to be measured thus.

Years ago I worked with someone who was convinced her husband was having an affair. He was always away on "courses " so he said. Anyway she followed him in a borrowed car, watched him go into a house, waited 10 minutes then went to hammer on the door and tackle the "other woman" and lo and behold it turned out to be half a dozen men meeting together whilst dressed as women. I`m going back over 30 years when such things were far from commonplace or openly talked about.
She was totally shocked, had no idea and drove home to turn the house inside out looking for his stuff and found suitcases in their loft which were filled with womens clothes, wigs, makeup and so on.
As for the facebook page I was talking about, well most of the men wear prosthetic boobs so they talk about being a 36 D or a dress size 12 or whatever they class themselves. All I can say is a pair of prosthetic boobs in a very tight mini dress stretched over a very large beer belly and no hips plus very chunky legs is NOT a pretty sight.
My son who`se almost 50, in the Army and has 2 teenage daughters was telling me about a colleague of his who was called into his teenage daughter`s school to have a chat about her regularly breaking the rules by turning up wearing makeup. He headed off to school and whilst waiting to be shown into the head`s office a kid wearing a furry suit walked up to him, woofed in his face and wagged a furry tail at him with their hand and then carried on down the corridor.
The hardcore soldier dad who thought he`d seen almost everything in life,went into the head`s office, told her what had happened and said " and you call me in here because my daughter had lip gloss and mascara on her face and yet I`ve just been woofed at by a kid in a furry suit !" He was told said kid chose to identify as a "furry". The word`s gone mad !

 

[Ant7t]

Father Ted, My Little Horse for Ireland

I think I remember that. And there's that connection with Graham Norton too.

 

[Ant7t]

I`m going back over 30 years when such things were far from commonplace or openly talked about.

That group I mentioned was somewhere between 1997 - 2000, if I were to put a time frame on it. So about the same era.

I`ve just been woofed at by a kid in a furry suit !" He was told said kid chose to identify as a "furry". The word`s gone mad !

It takes all sorts, but that's daft, even if it is actually a 'thing'. (Which I thought adults did, not kids.)