Quartzite Jade REALLY!

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Always complaining said:
Why on earth would anyone here be ‘sour grapes’ . It’s not as if buying from Gemporia is a privilege that is denied to us. We are all very welcome to buy from them if we want to. If you are happy that’s great but not everyone is and some feel cheated when they see pieces sold at auction for a fraction of what they paid.
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Yes, you have to love the naivety, don't you? 'Sour grapes' - so we're all jealous! OK. Whatever. :ROFLMAO:

Definitely in complete denial.
 
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Gemma Rose said:
Hi. I'm a gemmologist, qualified with the Gemmological Association of Great Britain over twenty years ago. I stumbled across this thread while searching for something else.

It's unlikely that the Advertising Standards Authority will do anything about any such complaints, for two reasons: firstly, jade is not at all well understood in the west, and secondly, the very term 'jade' is an umbrella term for a number of materials.

It used to be (broadly speaking) just jadeite and nephrite, but recently other materials have been deemed to have characteristics that qualify them for a place under that umbrella, too. Dulong jade is one of these 'new jade' materials (a quartz-based material formerly called Du Long Yu) not always considered a jade. but now it is. Similarly with quartzite, and specifically that from Burma - which, since 2013, laboratories in the East have begun to certify as a jade.

Now, challenging that will be difficult as the East understands jade far better than ANY laboratory in the west. I'm aware on at least one Gemporia customer who (like you) was suspicious, and took her purchases for independent testing at a very well-respected Western laboratory, where they were independently confirmed as jade (at considerable cost to that customer).

It helps if you understand that gemmology is not a science that can always give answers in absolute terms, and traditional gemstone definitions are changing as the ability to test becomes more advanced.
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As you mentioned, "Jade" is an umbrella term in gemmology, but gemmology has many grey areas and misleading marketing names. Just because a stone is labelled as "Jade" does not mean it truly is. A stone's chemical composition is what ultimately defines its identity, as you, being a gemmologist, would know.

No respectable laboratory or gemmologist would certify stones under names like "New Jade" or "Quartzite Jade." These are marketing gimmicks designed to give the illusion that inexpensive, low-value stones are worth more by associating them with the name "Jade."

For example, Serpentine is often sold as "New Jade," but Serpentine has no mineralogical relationship to true Jade.

Recently, Gemporia has even marketed Maw-Sit-Sit as "Maw-Sit-Sit Jade," despite it not being a type of Jade.

In geology, "Jade" refers strictly to two distinct minerals: Jadeite and Nephrite. This is also confirmed by the GIA. Any material other than these two minerals being labelled as "Jade" or "Jadeite" is misleading and falls under dubious marketing tactics.

Similarly, the misuse of "Jasper" in the industry is troubling. Many stones are sold under the name "Jasper" despite not being true Jaspers. A classic example is Dalmatian Jasper, which is not a Jasper at all. A reputable lab or gemmologist would certify it under its actual name.

As for Laboratories in the East. China in particular are well known for their dishonesty. Dave Troth has only ever shown us Chinese certificates when talking about his 'Quartzite Jade'. He has yet to provide any evidence of any reputable lab certifying it as a 'Quartzite Jade'. I think we can guess the reasons for that...............

As you say, Gemmology is not a science. Well, it is, but it is not treated as a pure science today, though it should be. Centuries ago, it was more straightforward. However, greed and unethical sales tactics have introduced many grey areas. In theory, the scientific process should be simple: identify the stone through its chemical composition and verify any treatments with lab testing. But the reality is that renaming cheap Green Serpentine as "New Jade" or "Serpentine Jade" convinces buyers that they are purchasing a valuable variety of Jade. That's the sad, but all too common, side of the gemmology / jewellery industry.

As for the woman whose Jade was confirmed as Jade - well, that would be because it actually was Jade then, not 'Quartzite Jade', 'Maw-Sit-Sit Jade' or 'Serpentine Jade'. On the other hand, if I take 'Quartzite Jade' to a Western lab, it will be identified as Quartzite because that's what it is. Similarly, if I take Serpentine to a lab, it will be certified as Serpentine, not as Jade. Despite what Troth and his Chinese certificates claim, Serpentine is not, and never has been, Jade.
 
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JanCherry1 said:
I wish. I do my research before I buy and as already stated I am happy with every piece I've bought
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I hope you're still happy with it in a few years time when the ring you bought for £500 struggles to sell for £100 - or in 7 months time when the stones fall out and Gemporia tell you to bog off because your paltry 6 month warranty is up.
 
Jojo1 said:
Be mindful that gemology and geology are different qualifications, geology being university degree based. Kind of like a chiropractor/ naturopath etc vs dr of medicine.
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I agree, it’s important to remember that the two disciplines are different. It’s shocking that some people do not understand that geology and gemmology, though related, are absolutely NOT the same field of study.

Your comparison fails, therefore, in that all your examples are working in precisely the same field - the human body.

Geology is the study of the earth, its evolution and its physical processes. Gemmology is a specialism which focuses on study of what the earth has produced.

Some gemmologists attended universities. I’m one of them.
 
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Gemma Rose said:
Your comparison fails, therefore, in that all your examples are working in precisely the same field - the human body.
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Well no, it doesn't, it's actually a very good example.

Medicine is scientifically proven. Chiropractic is controversial, and has many grey areas.

Geologists tend to refer to things exactly as they are. Gemmologists tend to use a lot of controversial, grey area, marketing names.
 
TheManWithNoName said:
As you mentioned, "Jade" is an umbrella term in gemmology, but gemmology has many grey areas and misleading marketing names. Just because a stone is labelled as "Jade" does not mean it truly is. A stone's chemical composition is what ultimately defines its identity, as you, being a gemmologist, would know.

No respectable laboratory or gemmologist would certify stones under names like "New Jade" or "Quartzite Jade." These are marketing gimmicks designed to give the illusion that inexpensive, low-value stones are worth more by associating them with the name "Jade."

For example, Serpentine is often sold as "New Jade," but Serpentine has no mineralogical relationship to true Jade.

Recently, Gemporia has even marketed Maw-Sit-Sit as "Maw-Sit-Sit Jade," despite it not being a type of Jade.

In geology, "Jade" refers strictly to two distinct minerals: Jadeite and Nephrite. This is also confirmed by the GIA. Any material other than these two minerals being labelled as "Jade" or "Jadeite" is misleading and falls under dubious marketing tactics.

Similarly, the misuse of "Jasper" in the industry is troubling. Many stones are sold under the name "Jasper" despite not being true Jaspers. A classic example is Dalmatian Jasper, which is not a Jasper at all. A reputable lab or gemmologist would certify it under its actual name.

As for Laboratories in the East. China in particular are well known for their dishonesty. Dave Troth has only ever shown us Chinese certificates when talking about his 'Quartzite Jade'. He has yet to provide any evidence of any reputable lab certifying it as a 'Quartzite Jade'. I think we can guess the reasons for that...............

As you say, Gemmology is not a science. Well, it is, but it is not treated as a pure science today, though it should be. Centuries ago, it was more straightforward. However, greed and unethical sales tactics have introduced many grey areas. In theory, the scientific process should be simple: identify the stone through its chemical composition and verify any treatments with lab testing. But the reality is that renaming cheap Green Serpentine as "New Jade" or "Serpentine Jade" convinces buyers that they are purchasing a valuable variety of Jade. That's the sad, but all too common, side of the gemmology / jewellery industry.

As for the woman whose Jade was confirmed as Jade - well, that would be because it actually was Jade then, not 'Quartzite Jade', 'Maw-Sit-Sit Jade' or 'Serpentine Jade'. On the other hand, if I take 'Quartzite Jade' to a Western lab, it will be identified as Quartzite because that's what it is. Similarly, if I take Serpentine to a lab, it will be certified as Serpentine, not as Jade. Despite what Troth and his Chinese certificates claim, Serpentine is not, and never has been, Jade.
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I never said gemmology is not a science. I said “gemmology is not a science that can always give answers in absolute terms”.

I also never mentioned serpentine - at all. Or maw-sit-sit. Or Jasper.

It might help your argument if you were able to read what is actually said, and respond to that, rather than twist what was said, and introduce non sequiturs in order to back up a weak line of reasoning.

It is not greed and unethical sales tactics (which have present been in the jewellery industry - indeed, in ANY sales environment - since day one) that have introduced many grey areas in gemstone analysis - it is advancements in the technology of analysis that has DISCOVERED many grey areas that existed, in some cases, for centuries. Of course gemmology was ‘more straighforward’ centuries ago - back then, every red stone was a carbuncle! You really want us to stay pickled in the aspic of the dark ages?

As for ‘if I take 'Quartzite Jade' to a Western lab, it will be identified as Quartzite because that's what it is’ - I suggest you take quartzite jade to the GIA (not just A Western lab, but THE Western lab) for testing. They are now accepting and endorsing Eastern lab classifications, regardless of their earlier stance on the matter. But I expect you will continue with your delusion that you know better than those who are qualified.

The Gemporia customer I referred to who had her jade independently certified as jade (I believe with Anchor Cert, part of the UK Assay office) stated that a number of her items were indeed quartzite jade.

As for the assertion in your later post that “Gemmologists tend to use a lot of controversial, grey area, marketing names” - this just shows your failure to understand the difference between the role of a gemmologist (who does not do that, because there is absolutely no payoff for him/her to do so) and that of a jewellery retailer. The two roles are entirely different (the retail jeweller often being entirely unqualified).

Your abusive, belittling remarks to the lady who is happy with her Gemporia purchases are both unproven and unfounded. If, as she says, she does her research, she is just as well equipped as you, and no more likely to find that her “ring bought for £500 struggles to sell for £100 - or in 7 months time when the stones fall out….” than anyone else. I’ve encountered many cases of High Street jewellers who refuse repair or replacement of substandard goods in far shorter timeframes than that, for spurious reasons. And, in the industry, I’ve also seen Gemporia goods successfully sold on for very inflated prices, with the makers mark ground out. EBay is stuffed to the gunwales with such items.

Finally, despite what you allege, the comparison of gemmologist/geologist to doctor/chiropractor DOES fail, not because of the qualifications of the individuals concerned, but because both are working in the same field - that of the human body.
The gemmologist/geologist are not. But clearly you’ll continue to believe you know better than someone who has been in the industry for over fifty years.
 
Gemma Rose said:
I never said gemmology is not a science. I said “gemmology is not a science that can always give answers in absolute terms”.

I also never mentioned serpentine - at all. Or maw-sit-sit. Or Jasper.

It might help your argument if you were able to read what is actually said, and respond to that, rather than twist what was said, and introduce non sequiturs in order to back up a weak line of reasoning.

It is not greed and unethical sales tactics (which have present been in the jewellery industry - indeed, in ANY sales environment - since day one) that have introduced many grey areas in gemstone analysis - it is advancements in the technology of analysis that has DISCOVERED many grey areas that existed, in some cases, for centuries. Of course gemmology was ‘more straighforward’ centuries ago - back then, every red stone was a carbuncle! You really want us to stay pickled in the aspic of the dark ages?

As for ‘if I take 'Quartzite Jade' to a Western lab, it will be identified as Quartzite because that's what it is’ - I suggest you take quartzite jade to the GIA (not just A Western lab, but THE Western lab) for testing. They are now accepting and endorsing Eastern lab classifications, regardless of their earlier stance on the matter. But I expect you will continue with your delusion that you know better than those who are qualified.

The Gemporia customer I referred to who had her jade independently certified as jade (I believe with Anchor Cert, part of the UK Assay office) stated that a number of her items were indeed quartzite jade.

As for the assertion in your later post that “Gemmologists tend to use a lot of controversial, grey area, marketing names” - this just shows your failure to understand the difference between the role of a gemmologist (who does not do that, because there is absolutely no payoff for him/her to do so) and that of a jewellery retailer. The two roles are entirely different (the retail jeweller often being entirely unqualified).

Your abusive, belittling remarks to the lady who is happy with her Gemporia purchases are both unproven and unfounded. If, as she says, she does her research, she is just as well equipped as you, and no more likely to find that her “ring bought for £500 struggles to sell for £100 - or in 7 months time when the stones fall out….” than anyone else. I’ve encountered many cases of High Street jewellers who refuse repair or replacement of substandard goods in far shorter timeframes than that, for spurious reasons. And, in the industry, I’ve also seen Gemporia goods successfully sold on for very inflated prices, with the makers mark ground out. EBay is stuffed to the gunwales with such items.

Finally, despite what you allege, the comparison of gemmologist/geologist to doctor/chiropractor DOES fail, not because of the qualifications of the individuals concerned, but because both are working in the same field - that of the human body.
The gemmologist/geologist are not. But clearly you’ll continue to believe you know better than someone who has been in the industry for over fifty years.
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I can’t comment on the gemmological side of things but I don’t find his comments about the jewellery abusive or belittling. It’s an absolute fact that people have lost huge sums of money on these items and it’s also a fact that stones fall out. I have multiple pieces which have been only minimally worn that have lost stones and have absolutely not withstood any real test of wear. I actually find the initial comments about sour grapes more insulting. Many people here have been stung by these dubious sales tactics and to be told that we are “nit picking” is really infuriating. There’s nothing wrong in raising legitimate concerns about products and the manner in which they were sold.
 
Gemma Rose said:
I never said gemmology is not a science. I said “gemmology is not a science that can always give answers in absolute terms”.

I also never mentioned serpentine - at all. Or maw-sit-sit. Or Jasper.

It might help your argument if you were able to read what is actually said, and respond to that, rather than twist what was said, and introduce non sequiturs in order to back up a weak line of reasoning.

It is not greed and unethical sales tactics (which have present been in the jewellery industry - indeed, in ANY sales environment - since day one) that have introduced many grey areas in gemstone analysis - it is advancements in the technology of analysis that has DISCOVERED many grey areas that existed, in some cases, for centuries. Of course gemmology was ‘more straighforward’ centuries ago - back then, every red stone was a carbuncle! You really want us to stay pickled in the aspic of the dark ages?

As for ‘if I take 'Quartzite Jade' to a Western lab, it will be identified as Quartzite because that's what it is’ - I suggest you take quartzite jade to the GIA (not just A Western lab, but THE Western lab) for testing. They are now accepting and endorsing Eastern lab classifications, regardless of their earlier stance on the matter. But I expect you will continue with your delusion that you know better than those who are qualified.

The Gemporia customer I referred to who had her jade independently certified as jade (I believe with Anchor Cert, part of the UK Assay office) stated that a number of her items were indeed quartzite jade.

As for the assertion in your later post that “Gemmologists tend to use a lot of controversial, grey area, marketing names” - this just shows your failure to understand the difference between the role of a gemmologist (who does not do that, because there is absolutely no payoff for him/her to do so) and that of a jewellery retailer. The two roles are entirely different (the retail jeweller often being entirely unqualified).

Your abusive, belittling remarks to the lady who is happy with her Gemporia purchases are both unproven and unfounded. If, as she says, she does her research, she is just as well equipped as you, and no more likely to find that her “ring bought for £500 struggles to sell for £100 - or in 7 months time when the stones fall out….” than anyone else. I’ve encountered many cases of High Street jewellers who refuse repair or replacement of substandard goods in far shorter timeframes than that, for spurious reasons. And, in the industry, I’ve also seen Gemporia goods successfully sold on for very inflated prices, with the makers mark ground out. EBay is stuffed to the gunwales with such items.

Finally, despite what you allege, the comparison of gemmologist/geologist to doctor/chiropractor DOES fail, not because of the qualifications of the individuals concerned, but because both are working in the same field - that of the human body.
The gemmologist/geologist are not. But clearly you’ll continue to believe you know better than someone who has been in the industry for over fifty years.
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Please be careful throwing around words like abusive.
 
TheManWithNoName said:
I hope you're still happy with it in a few years time when the ring you bought for £500 struggles to sell for £100 - or in 7 months time when the stones fall out and Gemporia tell you to bog off because your paltry 6 month warranty is up.
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To be fair, over the years I have bought rings, earrings, bracelets etc. and not one stone was lost from any of them. Granted, this was before all the changes when the current management team took over. The jewellery then was mostly very good quality and, if you did your research before buying, you got some good, reasonably priced items, well made!
Unfortunately, I can't trust the present day format and terribly dishonest sales tactics being used and, in my opinion, once trust is lost, it can't be bought back.
A big feature of the obvious decline, was the loss of some of their best Presenters, really good, professional people, who actually MADE the company the success that it was. Heck, even Satnam the well-known cameraman, bowed out.
So, where did it all go wrong?
No 1: Misplaced family loyalty when selecting new management - a complete disaster!
No 2: Employing new 'Presenters' who scream at us, like deranged chimpanzees. Please remember, overdone market-stall selling should stay in the market!
No: 3: What can I say? We've all complained over and over about this, but nothing has changed. The constant droning on-and-on, day-in and day-out by a certain manager, who no-one listens to and, in fact, when he appears on screen, most of us make a dash for the remote!
Arrogance, how are you? And it's so, so boring. Get him off before we all expire from boredom and disinterest.🤔
Bring back a bit of entertainment, and let us actually enjoy the shows - after all, it is a "show" isn't it?
Meanwhile, rant over!
 
Gemma Rose said:
I never said gemmology is not a science. I said “gemmology is not a science that can always give answers in absolute terms”.

I also never mentioned serpentine - at all. Or maw-sit-sit. Or Jasper.

It might help your argument if you were able to read what is actually said, and respond to that, rather than twist what was said, and introduce non sequiturs in order to back up a weak line of reasoning.

It is not greed and unethical sales tactics (which have present been in the jewellery industry - indeed, in ANY sales environment - since day one) that have introduced many grey areas in gemstone analysis - it is advancements in the technology of analysis that has DISCOVERED many grey areas that existed, in some cases, for centuries. Of course gemmology was ‘more straighforward’ centuries ago - back then, every red stone was a carbuncle! You really want us to stay pickled in the aspic of the dark ages?

As for ‘if I take 'Quartzite Jade' to a Western lab, it will be identified as Quartzite because that's what it is’ - I suggest you take quartzite jade to the GIA (not just A Western lab, but THE Western lab) for testing. They are now accepting and endorsing Eastern lab classifications, regardless of their earlier stance on the matter. But I expect you will continue with your delusion that you know better than those who are qualified.

The Gemporia customer I referred to who had her jade independently certified as jade (I believe with Anchor Cert, part of the UK Assay office) stated that a number of her items were indeed quartzite jade.

As for the assertion in your later post that “Gemmologists tend to use a lot of controversial, grey area, marketing names” - this just shows your failure to understand the difference between the role of a gemmologist (who does not do that, because there is absolutely no payoff for him/her to do so) and that of a jewellery retailer. The two roles are entirely different (the retail jeweller often being entirely unqualified).

Your abusive, belittling remarks to the lady who is happy with her Gemporia purchases are both unproven and unfounded. If, as she says, she does her research, she is just as well equipped as you, and no more likely to find that her “ring bought for £500 struggles to sell for £100 - or in 7 months time when the stones fall out….” than anyone else. I’ve encountered many cases of High Street jewellers who refuse repair or replacement of substandard goods in far shorter timeframes than that, for spurious reasons. And, in the industry, I’ve also seen Gemporia goods successfully sold on for very inflated prices, with the makers mark ground out. EBay is stuffed to the gunwales with such items.

Finally, despite what you allege, the comparison of gemmologist/geologist to doctor/chiropractor DOES fail, not because of the qualifications of the individuals concerned, but because both are working in the same field - that of the human body.
The gemmologist/geologist are not. But clearly you’ll continue to believe you know better than someone who has been in the industry for over fifty years.
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I didn’t intend to offend you or your profession when making the point that there is a difference between level of expertise between a gemologist and geologist, i was building on what you wrote. In any case, as far as my valid comparison goes, both geo and gemmo deal with rocks, medical doctors and the allied health profession deal with human health. The bottom line of this whole discussion is about perceived value vs real value and where to get the absolute truth- that’s not Gemporia. After Angeline’s “GIA expert opinion” yesterday, comparing the price of a blue baroque sea pearl from Mexico with a dyed baroque freshwater from China, as if “cultured” was the only key word, i’m ashamed for her and Gemporia.

There is another thread about value items from Gemporia that we have opened if Cherry is interested. It was created so that we could, in good faith, discuss things that are a good buy, and call out things that are not to help each other out.

Thought everyone might also find this article of interest from an Australian Chinese gemologist re jade: https://mays.com.au/blogs/jade-education/fake-jade-bangle-etsy-ebay-review

Personally, if I wanted to buy real jade, i’d go to Chinatown in my local city and talk to the jewelers that sell to the local Chinese market. They would be laughed out of the shopping strip if they were to deceive their own culture with bogus jade/ quartz/marble substitute.

Good luck
 
TheManWithNoName said:
I hope you're still happy with it in a few years time when the ring you bought for £500 struggles to sell for £100 - or in 7 months time when the stones fall out and Gemporia tell you to bog off because your paltry 6 month warranty is up.
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I had a look at the Ryedale Auctions website, where a collection of Gemporia jewellery was auctioned over last few days (there may be more to be auctioned, I believe). A Glenn Lehrer pendant, 9ct gold, champagne quartz = hammer price £55. It'd be interesting to know how much was paid for it originally. The auctioneer has grouped the collection into lots, and the average estimated auction price for a lot seems to be £30 - £50, about 5-6 jewellery items per lot, gold or silver or mixed.

Bears out what most of us on here have said - anyone who thinks they are going to make their fortune at auction with their collection may well be in for a VERY nasty shock. :eek:
 
Marietta said:
To be fair, over the years I have bought rings, earrings, bracelets etc. and not one stone was lost from any of them. Granted, this was before all the changes when the current management team took over. The jewellery then was mostly very good quality and, if you did your research before buying, you got some good, reasonably priced items, well made!
Unfortunately, I can't trust the present day format and terribly dishonest sales tactics being used and, in my opinion, once trust is lost, it can't be bought back.
A big feature of the obvious decline, was the loss of some of their best Presenters, really good, professional people, who actually MADE the company the success that it was. Heck, even Satnam the well-known cameraman, bowed out.
So, where did it all go wrong?
No 1: Misplaced family loyalty when selecting new management - a complete disaster!
No 2: Employing new 'Presenters' who scream at us, like deranged chimpanzees. Please remember, overdone market-stall selling should stay in the market!
No: 3: What can I say? We've all complained over and over about this, but nothing has changed. The constant droning on-and-on, day-in and day-out by a certain manager, who no-one listens to and, in fact, when he appears on screen, most of us make a dash for the remote!
Arrogance, how are you? And it's so, so boring. Get him off before we all expire from boredom and disinterest.🤔
Bring back a bit of entertainment, and let us actually enjoy the shows - after all, it is a "show" isn't it?
Meanwhile, rant over!
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Agree with you, Marietta. I have jewellery bought from Gems over 15 years ago, and I still wear the pieces regularly and love them, and never a stone has dropped out (and some I have had checked over by a jeweller - all fine). Gold and silver weights are excellent, I have one silver ring with over 7 grams and bought for a song. I also bought for presents and the recipients still wear them regularly, innovative designs and some lovely stones. OK, we know that the world's changed and prices have taken a hike, but it's not just this, the whole ethos of the organisation seems to have changed as you've said - no humour, no fun, no really informative stuff about the gemstones from the presenters - it's just a contest as to who can shout the loudest and make the wildest claims. I'd be very happy to praise Gemporia if the praise was deserved.
 
historymystery said:
I had a look at the Ryedale Auctions website, where a collection of Gemporia jewellery was auctioned over last few days (there may be more to be auctioned, I believe). A Glenn Lehrer pendant, 9ct gold, champagne quartz = hammer price £55. It'd be interesting to know how much was paid for it originally. The auctioneer has grouped the collection into lots, and the average estimated auction price for a lot seems to be £30 - £50, about 5-6 jewellery items per lot, gold or silver or mixed.

Bears out what most of us on here have said - anyone who thinks they are going to make their fortune at auction with their collection may well be in for a VERY nasty shock. :eek:
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I will be one of them.! It was bought purely with my granddaughters in mind! It's embarrassing how much jewellery I bought a lot of it not worn. However after joining this forum I have learnt so much, alongside the the really poor quality of items bought a couple of years ago (returned) during the saga of waiting for weeks for refunds. I no longer trust Gemporia and would never buy again. The deception of all members of staff there is off the scale. Namely Angelina, Ellis, D. Troth the rest are absolutely terrible but, just doing as they are told. This of course is only my opinion and will possibly grate with the more knowledgeable opinions amongst us.
 
rubia said:
I will be one of them.! It was bought purely with my granddaughters in mind! It's embarrassing how much jewellery I bought a lot of it not worn. However after joining this forum I have learnt so much, alongside the the really poor quality of items bought a couple of years ago (returned) during the saga of waiting for weeks for refunds. I no longer trust Gemporia and would never buy again. The deception of all members of staff there is off the scale. Namely Angelina, Ellis, D. Troth the rest are absolutely terrible but, just doing as they are told. This of course is only my opinion and will possibly grate with the more knowledgeable opinions amongst us.
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What your granddaughters will get is a collection of jewellery lovingly put together by their grandmother and I’m sure you’re hoping they won’t sell but instead will wear and enjoy. The good thing about jewellery is that although it goes out of fashion it always comes back in again. Jewellery is definitely not suitable for short term speculative buying. I look on it like a car. As soon as you buy it the value drops by a large amount. On the other hand if you wanted to start your granddaughters collection off would you have paid more if you had gone to the high street. I don’t like to see their items sell so cheaply on other auction sites either but it’s difficult to see an alternative other than not buying jewellery at all. Unfortunately their standards have come down as their prices have gone up which is what really annoys me. Using less and less gold and smaller and smaller stones of poorer and poorer quality. Where they always used to give a colour grading for diamonds for example now they say white. I mean we can see that for ourselves.
 
Always complaining said:
What your granddaughters will get is a collection of jewellery lovingly put together by their grandmother and I’m sure you’re hoping they won’t sell but instead will wear and enjoy. The good thing about jewellery is that although it goes out of fashion it always comes back in again. Jewellery is definitely not suitable for short term speculative buying. I look on it like a car. As soon as you buy it the value drops by a large amount. On the other hand if you wanted to start your granddaughters collection off would you have paid more if you had gone to the high street. I don’t like to see their items sell so cheaply on other auction sites either but it’s difficult to see an alternative other than not buying jewellery at all. Unfortunately their standards have come down as their prices have gone up which is what really annoys me. Using less and less gold and smaller and smaller stones of poorer and poorer quality. Where they always used to give a colour grading for diamonds for example now they say white. I mean we can see that for ourselves.
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Thank you for making me look at it differently.
 
Gemma Rose said:
I also never mentioned serpentine - at all. Or maw-sit-sit. Or Jasper.
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There are these things in life called 'examples'. You might want to look it up before getting arsey.

As you're incapable of having a reasoned debate, you're not worth giving a detailed response to, so go and have a mardy elsewhere.

Marietta said:
To be fair, over the years I have bought rings, earrings, bracelets etc. and not one stone was lost from any of them. Granted, this was before all the changes when the current management team took over. The jewellery then was mostly very good quality and, if you did your research before buying, you got some good, reasonably priced items, well made!
Click to expand...

Oh I'm not saying the stones fall out of their jewellery often. I've just seen cases on their Facebook page where people have complained about stones falling out, and because they've only just gone over their 6 months warranty, Gemporia have said along the lines of "there's nothing we can do" - even on expensive pieces.

Gemporia simply don't stand by their jewellery - unlike other companies. I've used this example before, but Gemporia often like to price compare against Monica Vinader - but they never tell you that Monica Vinader provide a 5 year warranty on their jewellery, whereas Gemporia offer 6 months.

As for the rest of your response about presenters, etc - I completely agree.
 
historymystery said:
A Glenn Lehrer pendant, 9ct gold, champagne quartz = hammer price £55.
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These will never do well in auction anyway because auctioneers are experts in their field. They will have done their research and established that the so-called 'Glenn Lehrer' pieces are not cut by Glenn Lehrer at all - but are actually cut by a team that he trained in Jaipur.

They're simply average quality stones, cut in mass quantities, by 'normal' lapidarists, in the style of Glenn Lehrer.

Gemporia rarely tell us that though - and they like to talk as though they're cut by Lehrer himself.

The real 'Lehrer' pieces, cut by the man himself, can be bought loose on Gem Collector - and they sell for thousands.

Gemma Rose said:
But clearly you’ll continue to believe you know better than someone who has been in the industry for over fifty years.
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I believe the wording on the GIA website and Geological websites that call a spade a spade rather than someone that claims to be a gemmologist on a forum that has given incorrect information, despite claiming to be an expert, and then gets arsey when called out on it (y)
 
Gemma Rose said:
As for ‘if I take 'Quartzite Jade' to a Western lab, it will be identified as Quartzite because that's what it is’ - I suggest you take quartzite jade to the GIA (not just A Western lab, but THE Western lab) for testing. They are now accepting and endorsing Eastern lab classifications, regardless of their earlier stance on the matter. But I expect you will continue with your delusion that you know better than those who are qualified.
Click to expand...

Dave Troth himself has said, on-air, that "the GIA do not recognise Quartzite Jade".

So either Dave Troth is wrong, or you are wrong. Which is it?

If you type in 'Quartzite Jade' on the GIA website, NOTHING appears. There is no information at all.

Also, if you type in 'Quartzite Jade' into Google, the only links to it are Gemporia pages. If this is a real stone, why is nobody else selling it, and why are there no articles on it?

So yes, until I see any evidence from reputable sources that 'Quartzite Jade' is in fact a real Jade, I will 'continue my delusion' that I know better than someone spouting nonsense on a forum that claims to be a gemmologist.
 
historymystery said:
the whole ethos of the organisation seems to have changed as you've said - no humour, no fun, no really informative stuff about the gemstones from the presenters - it's just a contest as to who can shout the loudest and make the wildest claims. I'd be very happy to praise Gemporia if the praise was deserved.
Click to expand...
Having read this far down the thread and deciding to comment on your piece for convenience. I'm not too keen on seeing arguments back and forth, as interesting as the points may be. But, and it's probably been said elsewhere, have you (generic, not necessarily personally) noticed, a lot of complaints about Gemporia pertain to 'the recent incarnation'.

Granted I haven't been through 1000s of posts long past, but no one 'seems' to complain about the jewellery of the past past, only the recent past. Lessening quality and the likes. And, agreeing with you, it seems to be way that the company and its on-air presence, is currently being operated that 'rattles more bones' than even the jewellery. Again, a repeat, but 'bigging up' cheaper items is part of how it's run and that rubs people up the wrong way. Especially those 'oldies' (not age, but longest serving customers) who have a better knowledge and understanding of gems, jewellery and the associated quality of years past, including the production (TV) quality and how they have both degraded.
 
TheManWithNoName said:
Dave Troth himself has said, on-air, that "the GIA do not recognise Quartzite Jade".

So either Dave Troth is wrong, or you are wrong. Which is it?

If you type in 'Quartzite Jade' on the GIA website, NOTHING appears. There is no information at all.

Also, if you type in 'Quartzite Jade' into Google, the only links to it are Gemporia pages. If this is a real stone, why is nobody else selling it, and why are there no articles on it?

So yes, until I see any evidence from reputable sources that 'Quartzite Jade' is in fact a real Jade, I will 'continue my delusion' that I know better than someone spouting nonsense on a forum that claims to be a gemmologist.
Click to expand...

Not true.

As it happens, out of curiosity, I watched David Troth for myself, yesterday, in a lunchtime pitch with a presenter named Angeline Davies, selling two items of quartzite jade - a "red jade" bangle, and a two-dragon engraved pendant on a long beaded necklace.

Both openly said that the GIA stance has changed, and it now acknowledges quartzite jade as jade.

Frankly, I don't see how they could make such a statement without risk if being prosecuted if it were a falsehood.

Also, this statement would seem to rather confirm my earlier statement (from personal experience when doing valuations) that the GIA are now accepting and endorsing Eastern lab classifications, regardless of their earlier stance on the matter.
 

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