Jade - Opinion.

[Ant7t]

I wonder how many people invested in Russian Alexandrite when they were told it was a one location stone that was almost depleted? Then it was found in India

Didn't Gemporia et al, try to pass it off as the same deposit. It was the same seam that 'travelled' from Russia to India. And I would swear I saw some being sold on JM with Brazil (or at least south America) being a location too.

 

[TheManWithNoName]

Didn't Gemporia et al, try to pass it off as the same deposit. It was the same seam that 'travelled' from Russia to India. And I would swear I saw some being sold on JM with Brazil (or at least south America) being a location too.

I'm not sure, but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

 

[Marietta]

Investing in Jewellery is risky anyway.

I wonder how many people invested in Russian Alexandrite when they were told it was a one location stone that was almost depleted? Then it was found in India and Madagascar - which will have taken away some of the rarity and exclusivity factor and inevitably caused a drop in prices.

I wonder how many people invested in Grandidierite when it was considered the 5th rarest mineral in the world? Then a new deposit was discovered in Madagascar in 2017 - which led to the market being flooded with it.

I wonder how many people invested in Paraiba Tourmaline when they were told it was a one location stone from Brazil - only for a deposit to be found in Mozambique years later.

I wonder how many people have invested in Tanzanite, believing the stories that the mine is running out - despite experts estimating that there's approximately 42 years worth of mining left before it becomes depleted.

Also, I firmly believe that Tanzanite will be found in another country one day. Tanzanite is the blue variety of the mineral Zoisite. Zoisite has been found in a number of other countries in other colours - the blue variety is just exclusive to Tanzania (at the moment). I suspect that, one day in the future, in existing Zoisite mines, they might just hit a seam of blue material.

The gem world is too unpredictable. Remember when the industry told us that Garnet was found in every colour except for blue - only for blue garnet to be found in 1998.

Gem mining has been happening for thousands and thousands of years - yet even today, they're finding new discoveries of gems/minerals in previously untouched parts of the world.

If they find a seam of Tanzanite in Farflungistan next week, it will instantly devalue existing Tanzanian material because it suddenly becomes less rare.

Isn't Tanzanite brown when it's mined and turns blue when heated?

By the way, was thinking of Farflungistan this year for the hols, maybe find a Tanzanite mine there and become the next Manuel de Sousa!

 

[TheManWithNoName]

Isn't Tanzanite brown when it's mined and turns blue when heated?

By the way, was thinking of Farflungistan this year for the hols, maybe find a Tanzanite mine there and become the next Manuel de Sousa!

No, it's a common misconception that has been misunderstood over the years by repetitive use of the line "all Tanzanite is heat treated".

Yes, it is true that ALL Tanzanite has been heated to achieve its blue colour - however, some of that heating process can occur naturally when it is heated underground over thousands of years (therefore, it would be sold as 'Not Enhanced') - and some of it is heated by human after its been mined (this would be sold as 'Heat Treated').

Approximately 5% of the Tanzanite that comes out of the ground became 'naturally' blue underground - with the remaining 95% coming out of the ground brown, and then turned blue by heating it.

The natural material tends to have more pleochroism - with gorgeous reds and purples visible when the stone is tilted.

The 'heat treated' material loses some of that pleochroism and appears mainly blue from all angles with little to no reds or purples being visible because rapidly heating a stone takes out secondary hues.

This can happen to a lot of pleochroic heat treated stones. For example, an untreated Green Tourmaline will often show secondary blue hues (the kind of stuff that Gemporia try to pass off as 'Indicolite') - whereas Green Tourmaline that has been heat treated will usually show more of a solid bottle green colour with little to no secondary hues.

Similarly Sapphires. a lot of Sapphires are heated to remove any secondary hues because they're considered more desirable and command higher prices - whereas I actually prefer natural sapphires where secondary hues can be seen. I think they have far more character. Heat treatment can change a colour completely too though - for example, most Colourless Sapphires don't start out colourless. Similarly, Colourless Zircon usually started out brown, until heat treatment made it colourless. Citrine that has been 'heat treated' started out as Amethyst.

 

[Marietta]

No, it's a common misconception that has been misunderstood over the years by repetitive use of the line "all Tanzanite is heat treated".

Yes, it is true that ALL Tanzanite has been heated to achieve its blue colour - however, some of that heating process can occur naturally when it is heated underground over thousands of years (therefore, it would be sold as 'Not Enhanced') - and some of it is heated by human after its been mined (this would be sold as 'Heat Treated').

Approximately 5% of the Tanzanite that comes out of the ground became 'naturally' blue underground - with the remaining 95% coming out of the ground brown, and then turned blue by heating it.

The natural material tends to have more pleochroism - with gorgeous reds and purples visible when the stone is tilted.

The 'heat treated' material loses some of that pleochroism and appears mainly blue from all angles with little to no reds or purples being visible because rapidly heating a stone takes out secondary hues.

This can happen to a lot of pleochroic heat treated stones. For example, an untreated Green Tourmaline will often show secondary blue hues (the kind of stuff that Gemporia try to pass off as 'Indicolite') - whereas Green Tourmaline that has been heat treated will usually show more of a solid bottle green colour with little to no secondary hues.

Similarly Sapphires. a lot of Sapphires are heated to remove any secondary hues because they're considered more desirable and command higher prices - whereas I actually prefer natural sapphires where secondary hues can be seen. I think they have far more character. Heat treatment can change a colour completely too though - for example, most Colourless Sapphires don't start out colourless. Similarly, Colourless Zircon usually started out brown, until heat treatment made it colourless.

Thanks for the very interesting info. It's a pity the heat treated stones lose their pleochroism, a very attractive feature in any gemstone. The 5% naturally heated blue Tanzanites must be a lot more expensive and sought after than the run-of-the-mill ones we see on Gems!

 

[TheManWithNoName]

Thanks for the very interesting info. It's a pity the heat treated stones lose their pleochroism, a very attractive feature in any gemstone. The 5% naturally heated blue Tanzanites must be a lot more expensive and sought after than the run-of-the-mill ones we see on Gems!

Ive seen thousands of heat treated Tanzanites - but only one untreated Tanzanite.

I'd love to own one - but they're way out of my budget (unless, like any stone, I wanted to compromise by buying a heavily included, lighter coloured, less pleochroic stone - but that seems a bit pointless).

 

[TheManWithNoName]

The heat treated ones aren't inferior by the way. Even most of the top top quality stones in high end jewellers are heated - even stones in the tens of thousands of pounds.

 

[Marietta]

Ive seen thousands of heat treated Tanzanites - but only one untreated Tanzanite.

I'd love to own one - but they're way out of my budget (unless, like any stone, I wanted to compromise by buying a heavily included, lighter coloured, less pleochroic stone - but that seems a bit pointless).

Wow, only one unheated! Now, that's rare.

 

[Marietta]

The heat treated ones aren't inferior by the way. Even most of the top top quality stones in high end jewellers are heated - even stones in the tens of thousands of pounds.

That's amazing.

If I find a naturally heated Tanz in Farflungistan, I'll bring it home for you!

 

[Marietta]

You were right both times, so...

Just noticed, you've got a picture of Steve Bennett in his vault on your profile. Gosh, hasn't he lost a lot of weight? That Primal stuff isn't doing him any good at all!

 

[TheManWithNoName]

That's amazing.

If I find a naturally heated Tanz in Farflungistan, I'll bring it home for you!

Are you sure you wouldn't want to trade it in for one of Troth's Jadeite bangles?

 

[historymystery]

Investing in Jewellery is risky anyway.

I wonder how many people invested in Russian Alexandrite when they were told it was a one location stone that was almost depleted? Then it was found in India and Madagascar - which will have taken away some of the rarity and exclusivity factor and inevitably caused a drop in prices.

I wonder how many people invested in Grandidierite when it was considered the 5th rarest mineral in the world? Then a new deposit was discovered in Madagascar in 2017 - which led to the market being flooded with it.

I wonder how many people invested in Paraiba Tourmaline when they were told it was a one location stone from Brazil - only for a deposit to be found in Mozambique years later.

I wonder how many people have invested in Tanzanite, believing the stories that the mine is running out - despite experts estimating that there's approximately 42 years worth of mining left before it becomes depleted.

Also, I firmly believe that Tanzanite will be found in another country one day. Tanzanite is the blue variety of the mineral Zoisite. Zoisite has been found in a number of other countries in other colours - the blue variety is just exclusive to Tanzania (at the moment). I suspect that, one day in the future, in existing Zoisite mines, they might just hit a seam of blue material.

The gem world is too unpredictable. Remember when the industry told us that Garnet was found in every colour except for blue - only for blue garnet to be found in 1998.

Gem mining has been happening for thousands and thousands of years - yet even today, they're finding new discoveries of gems/minerals in previously untouched parts of the world.

If they find a seam of Tanzanite in Farflungistan next week, it will instantly devalue existing Tanzanian material because it suddenly becomes less rare.

Too right it's risky thinking in terms of investment. Anyone who thinks they'll make megabucks from buying jewellery from selly telly and selling it on later is deluding themselves. I'd say you're better off putting a bit of money into buying gold sovereigns/half sovereigns. If anyone watches the antiques programmes on TV they will see just how low jewellery sells for at auction, and I'm talking vintage or antique pieces, often 18ct gold or a higher carat, and gemstone set, often with diamonds, and in the case of rings items with decent thick gold shanks, not the slivers of tissue paper gold bands that Gemporia regularly use for rings. You can purchase a good carat weight of 18ct gold ring for £100-£120 at auction and antique bar brooches for about £40-£60. OK, we know if you're buying at auction you have auction fees to pay on top, but still cheaper than shopping telly gold tone items.

Unless you're fortunate enough to snap up a real second-hand bargain, perhaps a rare item and for a cheap price - or you inherit a valuable piece to sell - then you won't make serious money from re-selling, in fact you'll often be lucky to make any money, so the advice to only buy if you love the piece is good advice. Sadly, the viewers being hoodwinked by the 'this is legacy jewellery' spiel will be in for a very rude awakening - and we remember the experience of poor Mirabelle back in the day.

You've mentioned the 'final warnings' of the Doom Merchants and those of us who watched Gemporia years ago will remember the 'buy now, before they disappear and won't ever be seen again' on repeat. Tanzanite, Alexandrite and Opals are just three I remember hearing about over and over again. The crystal ball was obviously wrong! Perhaps Lynn's crystal healing stones interfered with its' accuracy?

 

[TheManWithNoName]

Too right it's risky thinking in terms of investment. Anyone who thinks they'll make megabucks from buying jewellery from selly telly and selling it on later is deluding themselves. I'd say you're better off putting a bit of money into buying gold sovereigns/half sovereigns. If anyone watches the antiques programmes on TV they will see just how low jewellery sells for at auction, and I'm talking vintage or antique pieces, often 18ct gold or a higher carat, and gemstone set, often with diamonds, and in the case of rings items with decent thick gold shanks, not the slivers of tissue paper gold bands that Gemporia regularly use for rings. You can purchase a good carat weight of 18ct gold ring for £100-£120 at auction and antique bar brooches for about £40-£60. OK, we know if you're buying at auction you have auction fees to pay on top, but still cheaper than shopping telly gold tone items.

Unless you're fortunate enough to snap up a real second-hand bargain, perhaps a rare item and for a cheap price - or you inherit a valuable piece to sell - then you won't make serious money from re-selling, in fact you'll often be lucky to make any money, so the advice to only buy if you love the piece is good advice. Sadly, the viewers being hoodwinked by the 'this is legacy jewellery' spiel will be in for a very rude awakening - and we remember the experience of poor Mirabelle back in the day.

You've mentioned the 'final warnings' of the Doom Merchants and those of us who watched Gemporia years ago will remember the 'buy now, before they disappear and won't ever be seen again' on repeat. Tanzanite, Alexandrite and Opals are just three I remember hearing about over and over again. The crystal ball was obviously wrong! Perhaps Lynn's crystal healing stones interfered with its' accuracy?

Even buying gold/silver sovereigns is risky. Anything we buy, we're buying it at retail prices. When we try to sell it back to the trade in years to come, they'll only ever offer trade prices. That's why jewellery is bought for so low on these TV programmes - because those antiques experts are paying trade prices so that they can sell it on and make a profit themselves.

The only people that make a profit in this are traders.

 

[Ant7t]

Are you sure you wouldn't want to trade it in for one of Troth's Jadeite bangles?

No, but if you offered two, and a rare bit of sea shell, that may sway the trade